Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

. . . erm, did you even read the post that you quoted? For that matter, did you even read the post you posted? Because if the answer was yes on both then it would (should) have become obvious that you start your post by being argumentative and then you continue by repeating exactly what the post you quoted said to a T!

I sincerely hope English isn't your first language...

Well...you seem to have problems reading between the lines, just like the other Greek.

I was referring to your statement: "It is mass-produced hand-built instruments that will have flaws simply because the old adage of "measure twice, cut once" can no longer be applied."

That old adage doesn't apply to CNC, only humans. Isn't it obvious why you should 'measure twice'?

Oh and one more thing, your ideas are contradicting each other. First you complain about flaws using CNC. Then you contradict that statement with this:
"if you use a CNC machine you have a fast, consistent and inhumanly precise way..."

And this: "one should use a machine for the things in which you need precision".

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Some people here still missing the point. Why are the workers upset to the point of issuing a press release? It's not that they're afraid of change, it's that the ENTIRE DNA of Heritage is founded on classic old school crafting of guitars. It's not about the destination, for them it's all about how you arrived there [...] Honestly though I've never seen a Heritage guitar in real life. There's no dealer network in Canada at all. In fact if not for gear message boards I never would have heard of them.

I have. At first glance they look stunning. Beautiful woods, great configurations, SD pickups. However if you look closer, not one is perfect, EVERY single one that I've seen had some flaw of some kind. Some were small and insignificant, others were not.

Like you said, the pitch was "like it used to be" and if that was enough to keep selling guitars that'd have been fine, however...

The Handcrafted Gibson guitars built the same way and in the same factory that created all the classic Gibsons was their gimmick, but was anyone really buying it? For every guy that did buy in it seems like their's 100s more that think they're a knock off with an ugly headstock.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Well...you seem to have problems reading between the lines, just like the other Greek.
I was referring to your statement: "It is mass-produced hand-built instruments that will have flaws simply because the old adage of "measure twice, cut once" can no longer be applied."
That old adage doesn't apply to CNC, only humans. Isn't it obvious why you should 'measure twice'?
Oh and one more thing, your ideas are contradicting each other. First you complain about flaws using CNC. Then you contradict that statement with this:
"if you use a CNC machine you have a fast, consistent and inhumanly precise way..."
And this: "one should use a machine for the things in which you need precision".

(Emphasis above is mine)

I don't know who "the other Greek" refers to but it is obvious that I have a much better grasp of English than you do.

HAND-BUILT means NO CNC. If you bothered to read the linked article one of the ex-workers said something along the lines of "Hand-build instruments will have flaws because of their hand-build nature. That's where their mojo, their soul comes from" (I am repeating from memory so that is not verbatim btw).

Continuing from that, I said that it isn't hand-built instruments that will automatically have flaws but MASS-PRODUCED hand-built ones, simply because in a production line it is much more expensive to measure twice each time than to make mistakes that may or may not go unnoticed.

Then I continue (NOT contradict) by saying that measuring twice is unneeded when using a CNC because the CNC will do everything in exactly the same way each and every time (whether that same thing is right or wrong is dependent solely on the program it runs on).

Now I could continue breaking down my post word-for-word but I am neither your father nor your teacher and even if I were, this is hardly the medium to do so.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

My bad on the proper terminology. My point is still valid, no need to come off snarky great one

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Not directed at you man!
In fact, terminology aside, basically what you said was that a CNC could do the initial cutting into shape (plus the fret slots) and then a human could take it from there, with which I completely agree!!!! :beerchug:

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Not directed at you man!
In fact, terminology aside, basically what you said was that a CNC could do the initial cutting into shape (plus the fret slots) and then a human could take it from there, with which I completely agree!!!! :beerchug:

Well said



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

(Emphasis above is mine)

I don't know who "the other Greek" refers to but it is obvious that I have a much better grasp of English than you do.

HAND-BUILT means NO CNC. If you bothered to read the linked article one of the ex-workers said something along the lines of "Hand-build instruments will have flaws because of their hand-build nature. That's where their mojo, their soul comes from" (I am repeating from memory so that is not verbatim btw).

Continuing from that, I said that it isn't hand-built instruments that will automatically have flaws but MASS-PRODUCED hand-built ones, simply because in a production line it is much more expensive to measure twice each time than to make mistakes that may or may not go unnoticed.

Then I continue (NOT contradict) by saying that measuring twice is unneeded when using a CNC because the CNC will do everything in exactly the same way each and every time (whether that same thing is right or wrong is dependent solely on the program it runs on).

Now I could continue breaking down my post word-for-word but I am neither your father nor your teacher and even if I were, this is hardly the medium to do so.

LOL...(I don't know how many times your post has been edited since I first read it 6 hours ago but I am responding to the first version). So you speak good English. Good for you. It's a big deal in Mediterranea, ain't it?

Well smart boy, you should cherish and pass your legacy to your grandchildren. Who knows...maybe you'll have your own entry on Wikipedia, like Plato does (that's sarcasm, in case you don't get it).

I can pinpoint grammatical errors here and there in your post but like you said...this isn't the proper avenue to do so.

Speaking of mass production of things in general (not just guitars), there are standards and specs to meet so almost definitely it's machine based, no manual labor.

Plus, mass production should ideally allow the manufacturer to cut production cost and hence, slash the price of the end product. So there is no fn' way this is to be achieved with manual labor especially in the US.

Come on, are you that clueless? Not only that your ideas are incoherent, you also have no basic idea about manufacturing.

Here's a tip for you pal: Next time you decide to delve into pointless debate, avoid editing your post in any possible way cause it jeopardizes your credibility and renders your argument lacking in substance, which it is. Either that or...regurgutating your own advice...go back to school.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

ICTGoober really has point here.

Guitar Industry used to be huge in old days of music business. It's still big but dwindling. Market is saturated in both ends: affordable and exclusive. And used market is taking it's toll too, as instruments generally don't lose their value. It's is huge and still growing.

Looking at the numbers it's obvious that changes had, and still has to be made. Laying off experienced and skilled people is just inevitable, when you consider how much such employees there are working in business. It's also business with a lot of new entrepeneurs crowding in, and with good customer service and boutique value, they have the edge in expensive range of instruments.

Unless someone is willing to throw plenty of millions for marketing and R&D, I don't see much room for a new even medium sized guitar company. There's just no room for succeeding.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

(Emphasis above is mine)


HAND-BUILT means NO CNC. If you bothered to read the linked article one of the ex-workers said something along the lines of "Hand-build instruments will have flaws because of their hand-build nature. That's where their mojo, their soul comes from" (I am repeating from memory so that is not verbatim btw).

Continuing from that, I said that it isn't hand-built instruments that will automatically have flaws but MASS-PRODUCED hand-built ones, simply because in a production line it is much more expensive to measure twice each time than to make mistakes that may or may not go unnoticed.

Hand build instruments (and everything made by hand) should ideally, and automatically, have flaws dummy...measure it a hundred times if you will, there is no guarantee you'll meet the exact specs. In fact, you kinda confirm this by quoting the employee mentioned in the article.

And let's be real...there is no way you are going to measure twice in mass production. Let's not kid ourselves...so your argument is fatally flawed, unrealistic.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Some folks are arguing past each other about "hand made" and CNC.... Let's not forget that guitars are made of wood.... A notoriously unstable material that expands, contracts, twists, warps, cracks, and otherwise morphs itself according to the vagaries of humidity, temperature, and even barometric pressure. It's NOT a man made material like aluminum or carbon fiber, OK? Sometimes guitars seem to have a mind of their own, and refuse to yield to the best efforts of man. In other words - IT'S NOT A PERFECT WORLD. So let's lighten up a bit, shall we?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Hey, let's be respectful here. We can disagree about the topic without attacking each other.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

this is why we cant have nice things