Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

[Monsta-Tone]

I've been reading forum threads about adjustable pole pieces all morning and I'm still confused.
I was not able to find anything concise about what the actual changes are between hex (long vs. short) and slotted.
Some guys think longer screws are better, some seemed to think that shorter screws were more articulate.
I also was not able to really figure out what each alloy does.....
I'm a little confused and all coffee-d up, so please forgive me if this doesn't make much sense....

Here is my quandary.
I have an older ESP H-300 LTD guitar. It plays like butter, but I'm not 100% satisfied with it's tone just yet.
3 piece mahogany neck through with mahogany body and quilted maple laminate
PAF Pro (standard spaced) in the neck
Super Distortion (F spaced) in the bridge
500k pots (1 Volume, 1 Tone)
.022mf Orange Drop cap
Switchcraft jack

Anyway....
When I first got the guitar, it had a Tone Zone in the neck. Not sure what the previous owner was trying to accomplish, but the guitar basically like my amp was at the bottom of the tar pits. Sonic mud....
I installed a PAF Pro in the neck and love it, but have a couple of issues that I am trying to work out.

With a .022 cap:
PAF Pro is just a little muddy and inarticulate with huge amounts of gain - I lowered the pickup slightly on the bass side and raised the screws a little for the E & A strings. This seemed to help a little.
Super Distortion is just a tad too bright for riffing, but I love the harmonics!

With a .033 cap (what came in the guitar):
PAF Pro is darker and more flubby
Super Distortion has great growl, but way less harmonics


Would changing the pole pieces in both pickups allow me to dial in their individual tones a little more?
Would using a different alloy in the PP tighten up the bass a little and add a bit more sparkle?
Would using a different alloy in the SD allow me to add just a tiny bit more bass?

I also thought about the following, but I'm not sure how it will work:
Remove the PP from the tone altogether making the tone knob only work for the SD.
Then, tweaking the cap and pot value for the tone until I get it just right for the SD.

I never use the tone pot. I prefer to move my picking hand closer to the nut if I want darker tones and closer to the bridge for brighter tones. The only reason it's there is to tame the bridge pickup a little.

Anybody have any ideas?

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

From what I read, the PP has a 5-40 and the SD has a 10-32 headless screw.
I removed one screw from each pickup just to see what size they were, seems like these sizes are the correct ones.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

Honestly bro, you're almost to the end of your tweaking rope so to speak. It seems as though you've got a very good grasp, knowledge wise, on what you're doing. At this point in the game, I don't think swapping pole pieces is going to get you where you want to be. They do have some effect on the tone, but it appears to me that you have very specific goals you want. You could try a magnet swap, but that usually changes the character of a pickup in a broader sense, not to mention most Dimarzio pickups I've taken apart, the magnet is glued down and that would make it difficult to do the swap easily. You could try swapping out the pots, but you're at a good median now. If you go down to a 250k or 300k, your pickups will prob turn to mush. Going up to a 1meg pot will probably be too bright.

Some will probably disagree with me, but when you're down to the point of tweaking that you're at, it's probably time to try another pickup. In your case and seeing you are very specific in your goals, I'd probably suggest the SD custom shop. IME, when I've gotten to this point with a guitar and it's pickups, most of the things you can do is going to be a broader sound augmentation, and 90% of the time it's a setback. I've been in your shoes many times and ended up starting from scratch over and over again when I should have just called MJ at the custom shop and said this is where I'm at, this is what I have, this is what I'm getting close to but haven't been able to make it there by means of my own, and this is ultimately what I want out of this guitar. Then let her do her magic. Is it a little pricey? Sure. $300 is a good bit for pickups. But in the long run, how many tweaks, parts and pickup swaps are you going to do that usually end up costing more than that. Often times people get frustrated after so many swaps and sell the guitar off and lose even more money.

I'm not saying there isn't a production pickup out there for you. You just seem like you have pretty specifics wants/needs out of what you've got. 9 times out of 10 it's better to take where you're at, spend the money and get you to where you want to be than to spend the time and money trying over and over this or that. If you want to talk production pickups, and me personally having similar experiences with the Dimarzios you have in a similar guitar, I'd say a Duncan Distortion/Jazz is probably more in tune with your needs. But like I said, it could be what you need or just another starting point.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

I think your guitar being an LTD is just one of those cases where Duncans will work better than Dimarzios. To me the Super D always had all the beef I needed and then some. I find the Paf Pro really neutral sounding, but also very tidy and clear. I think you should try a pair of Duncans, as they generally seem to have a big, wide sound as compared to the "compact", "peaky" or "midrangy" Dimarzio voicing.

 

[Grindspine]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

When I had problems with mud from a tone control, I just disconnected the tone control. The only one of my guitars that still has the tone control enabled is EMG equipped, since active tone controls do not dull out the sound as much to my ears.

On another one of my guitars, I started using the knob that was tone as a "dial-a-tap". It is a wiring scheme that lets you connect a four conductor humbucker to the potentiometer and roll back one coil so you can get a single coil or unbalanced coil sound when rolled down and a full series humbucker sound when rolled up.

I have been much happier with that type of tonal versatility when compared to using a standard tone control.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

When I had problems with mud from a tone control, I just disconnected the tone control. The only one of my guitars that still has the tone control enabled is EMG equipped, since active tone controls do not dull out the sound as much to my ears.

On another one of my guitars, I started using the knob that was tone as a "dial-a-tap". It is a wiring scheme that lets you connect a four conductor humbucker to the potentiometer and roll back one coil so you can get a single coil or unbalanced coil sound when rolled down and a full series humbucker sound when rolled up.

I have been much happier with that type of tonal versatility when compared to using a standard tone control.

That's what I'm thinking. I can make the tone control work on just the SD and that will brighten the PP up a bit. Plus, then I can dial in the tone and cap to where the SD sounds just right.

I think your guitar being an LTD is just one of those cases where Duncans will work better than Dimarzios. To me the Super D always had all the beef I needed and then some. I find the Paf Pro really neutral sounding, but also very tidy and clear. I think you should try a pair of Duncans, as they generally seem to have a big, wide sound as compared to the "compact", "peaky" or "midrangy" Dimarzio voicing.

How do you think a set of Duncan Distortion would sound in an all mahogany guitar?
These pickups are pretty damn close to what I am looking for though. I don't want to give up on them just yet. I really like the PAF Pro for it's ability to sound really great clean and still growl enough to overdrive my amp the way I want. I also really like touch sensitivity of the PP. I've never had one in an all mahogany guitar before though.

Some will probably disagree with me, but when you're down to the point of tweaking that you're at, it's probably time to try another pickup. In your case and seeing you are very specific in your goals, I'd probably suggest the SD custom shop. IME, when I've gotten to this point with a guitar and it's pickups, most of the things you can do is going to be a broader sound augmentation, and 90% of the time it's a setback. I've been in your shoes many times and ended up starting from scratch over and over again when I should have just called MJ at the custom shop and said this is where I'm at, this is what I have, this is what I'm getting close to but haven't been able to make it there by means of my own, and this is ultimately what I want out of this guitar. Then let her do her magic. Is it a little pricey? Sure. $300 is a good bit for pickups. But in the long run, how many tweaks, parts and pickup swaps are you going to do that usually end up costing more than that. Often times people get frustrated after so many swaps and sell the guitar off and lose even more money.

I understand completely what you are saying.
This guitar isn't worth as much as the pickups would be at that point. Plus, I have 3 small kids and money is a little tight. At least with production pups, I can just sell them and use the money to buy more. If I had the cash though, I would probably jump on a CS set immediately.
Honestly, I'm really close with these pickups to what I want out of the guitar. I'm thinking that just a few small tweaks would get me there.

Thanks guys, please keep the advice coming, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

That's what I'm thinking. I can make the tone control work on just the SD and that will brighten the PP up a bit. Plus, then I can dial in the tone and cap to where the SD sounds just right.

Yeah, that is definitely an idea. I run my Paf pro sans tone control as well.

How do you think a set of Duncan Distortion would sound in an all mahogany guitar?

Obnoxious is the word, haha. The DD is one beastly pickup. But I don't think it'll match well with a Paf Pro.

These pickups are pretty damn close to what I am looking for though. I don't want to give up on them just yet. I really like the PAF Pro for it's ability to sound really great clean and still growl enough to overdrive my amp the way I want. I also really like touch sensitivity of the PP.

I know, I like my Paf Pro for the exact same reasons.

I understand completely what you are saying.
This guitar isn't worth as much as the pickups would be at that point. Plus, I have 3 small kids and money is a little tight. At least with production pups, I can just sell them and use the money to buy more. If I had the cash though, I would probably jump on a CS set immediately.

I agree. I don't mean to be an ******* by saying your guitar is not worthy of custom shop pickups, but that's exactly what I think about this idea. I don't doubt they'd sound amazing but still the guitar probably isn't going to do them justice. I just have this feeling in the gut, based on my experience with LTDs, that it would like Duncans a bit more than Dimarzios.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

Yeah, that is definitely an idea. I run my Paf pro sans tone control as well.

Did it brighten/tighten it up a little?

Obnoxious is the word, haha. The DD is one beastly pickup. But I don't think it'll match well with a Paf Pro.

I would probably change them both if I went that route. I really think the pickups I have are very close to what I'm looking for though.

I agree. I don't mean to be an ******* by saying your guitar is not worthy of custom shop pickups, but that's exactly what I think about this idea. I don't doubt they'd sound amazing but still the guitar probably isn't going to do them justice. I just have this feeling in the gut, based on my experience with LTDs, that it would like Duncans a bit more than Dimarzios.

No worries! I know it's a cheap guitar, but it is really sweet to play.
I have a new LTD MH-1000FR that has a set of PATB-1's in it. I haven't tried it with the band yet, but they sound really good in that guitar.
I did change the magnet in the bridge pup to an Alnico 8 though.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

I talked with Frank Falbo yesterday for a long time about pickups, frets, etc.. He said that the length of the screw has much more affect on tone than the type or alloy.
The shorter the screw, the brighter, more articulate/aggressive the tone.
The longer the screw, the darker and looser the tone is.

I ordered a few nickel plated screws. I figure that will be the easiest way to keep track of the ones that I cut a little shorter. Shiny nickel will be shorter, black will be longer.
Experimentation time!

 

[J E C]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

Would be interested in what you find out/how it works out.

 

[psychodave]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

I talked with Frank Falbo yesterday for a long time about pickups, frets, etc.. He said that the length of the screw has much more affect on tone than the type or alloy.
The shorter the screw, the brighter, more articulate/aggressive the tone.
The longer the screw, the darker and looser the tone is.

I ordered a few nickel plated screws. I figure that will be the easiest way to keep track of the ones that I cut a little shorter. Shiny nickel will be shorter, black will be longer.
Experimentation time!

What were your results?

 

[crguti]

Re: Hex Pole Pieces - Experimenting with Different Screws in all Mahogany Guitar

swap the hex screws of your Paf Pro and put them into the Tone Zone. Come back with your results.