RayBarbeeMusic
New member
I have a full shred neck and was going to replace the back hex poles with some gold to match the trim on the guitar. Thread is correct but they are longer than the stock ones. Am I likely to change the tone by doing this?
Hex poles - does length affect tone?
- Thread starter RayBarbeeMusic
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idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Head style, alloy, length and mass all make a tonal difference. Personally I can't stand screws that protrude too far past the baseplate and I prefer them flush on the bass strings. Long screws have a tendency to muddy up the bass. Why? My theory is because there's a secondary magnetic field on the bottom of the pickup that picks up string vibrations.
Head style, alloy, length and mass all make a tonal difference. Personally I can't stand screws that protrude too far past the baseplate and I prefer them flush on the bass strings. Long screws have a tendency to muddy up the bass. Why? My theory is because there's a secondary magnetic field on the bottom of the pickup that picks up string vibrations.
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frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Yes. The longer poles drag the field's return path down. It changes the shape of the field up top, at the string because of it. But also changes the stray flux that puts information in and around the underside of the coil too. You can cut the screw poles shorter if you like, but you might like them long.
The shape of the pole, slot head vs. hex head has a smaller impact on the sound, not enough to be concerned with in my opinion. The length trumps the head shape. But if you trimmed them flush, and it still sounded different, that's why.
Yes. The longer poles drag the field's return path down. It changes the shape of the field up top, at the string because of it. But also changes the stray flux that puts information in and around the underside of the coil too. You can cut the screw poles shorter if you like, but you might like them long.
The shape of the pole, slot head vs. hex head has a smaller impact on the sound, not enough to be concerned with in my opinion. The length trumps the head shape. But if you trimmed them flush, and it still sounded different, that's why.
GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Is there a particular effect from using longer screws? Like does it make the pickup sound brighter/darker?
Is there a particular effect from using longer screws? Like does it make the pickup sound brighter/darker?
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Longer screws make the sound darker, thicker and mushier. Short screws are tighter, rounder and punchier. The midrange and bass don't sound congested with short screws.
SAVAGE DISTORTION
New member
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
It was not a placebo effect at all.:headbang:
I experienced this too on a custom-custom. I trimmed the bottom of the screws flush to the plate and the pickup definitely got more definition and tightness.
It was not a placebo effect at all.:headbang:
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Ok I tried it and HOLY CRAP does it make a difference.
It took the FS neck, which I love for it's tight/bright/clear sound (I feel it's the best commercially available pickup for that). and made it dark and kind of muddy. Really ruined the tone in a not-at-all subtle way, so the original screws went back in pronto.
I replaced the stock screws on the Gravity Storm bridge with gold of the same length, and that seemed to also change the tone of that pickup, albeit more subtly. It seemed to have more emphasis on the low end noise portion of the pick attack, so I switched to black screws and that subsided noticeably.
Never would have thought that would make that much of a difference, but it clearly does. Now I'm curious about cutting the length of some stock screws on pickups I want brighter/tighter.
Ok I tried it and HOLY CRAP does it make a difference.
It took the FS neck, which I love for it's tight/bright/clear sound (I feel it's the best commercially available pickup for that). and made it dark and kind of muddy. Really ruined the tone in a not-at-all subtle way, so the original screws went back in pronto.
I replaced the stock screws on the Gravity Storm bridge with gold of the same length, and that seemed to also change the tone of that pickup, albeit more subtly. It seemed to have more emphasis on the low end noise portion of the pick attack, so I switched to black screws and that subsided noticeably.
Never would have thought that would make that much of a difference, but it clearly does. Now I'm curious about cutting the length of some stock screws on pickups I want brighter/tighter.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
I realize that you're referring to the neck FS. But it has become public knowledge that the FS bridge is the Custom wind. So when you think about it, the FSb is a Custom 5 with 2 rows of hex screws instead of screws and slugs. Some people feel sort of cheated finding that out, as if they're not really "different" pickups. But on the contrary, anyone who has played both would absolutely say they're different pickups.
When swapping poles between Duncan and Dimarzio two things to note. Their hex poles are in between PAF length and Duncan's Full Shred/Demon hex poles. but...the alloy is different. The hex's seem closer to one another but if you remove 6 screw poles from something like a Tone Zone, and 6 from a Duncan you can feel a weight difference in your hand. You can also hear a difference in the way they "clang" together. the alloy impacts the tone as well. If there's ever a Dimarzio screw/slug pickup that I like and own, I will usually replace the screw poles with Duncan screws.
Height, head shape, and alloy. Trifecta of nearly infinite possibilities.
I realize that you're referring to the neck FS. But it has become public knowledge that the FS bridge is the Custom wind. So when you think about it, the FSb is a Custom 5 with 2 rows of hex screws instead of screws and slugs. Some people feel sort of cheated finding that out, as if they're not really "different" pickups. But on the contrary, anyone who has played both would absolutely say they're different pickups.
When swapping poles between Duncan and Dimarzio two things to note. Their hex poles are in between PAF length and Duncan's Full Shred/Demon hex poles. but...the alloy is different. The hex's seem closer to one another but if you remove 6 screw poles from something like a Tone Zone, and 6 from a Duncan you can feel a weight difference in your hand. You can also hear a difference in the way they "clang" together. the alloy impacts the tone as well. If there's ever a Dimarzio screw/slug pickup that I like and own, I will usually replace the screw poles with Duncan screws.
Height, head shape, and alloy. Trifecta of nearly infinite possibilities.
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Ok so having had the difference demonstrated vividly, can anyone tell me where to source the short hex poles Duncan uses? Or bobbins that accept them? Or the screws Frank mentions above.
Ok so having had the difference demonstrated vividly, can anyone tell me where to source the short hex poles Duncan uses? Or bobbins that accept them? Or the screws Frank mentions above.
MacBradley
New member
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Iron is ferromagnetic. Steel is made of varying amounts of iron and other materials. Screws in humbuckers are made of steel.
This means that a different shaped screw will direct the magnetic field in a different direction. That will effect the sound. Also, different shaped/length screws will most likely have a different amount of iron content due to being different sizes. The more iron (example: longer screws) in the pickup, the more inductance, which (in simplified terms, its an equation involving other factors) increases output and reduces treble.
They type of steel the screws are made of will effect the pickup's sound as well.
Iron is ferromagnetic. Steel is made of varying amounts of iron and other materials. Screws in humbuckers are made of steel.
This means that a different shaped screw will direct the magnetic field in a different direction. That will effect the sound. Also, different shaped/length screws will most likely have a different amount of iron content due to being different sizes. The more iron (example: longer screws) in the pickup, the more inductance, which (in simplified terms, its an equation involving other factors) increases output and reduces treble.
They type of steel the screws are made of will effect the pickup's sound as well.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
I've just posted a testimonial on MLP about plated vs unplated screws... I've the two kinds of screws (same size and shape and AFAIK, same alloy): they don't change the inductance of the pickups (that I always measure) but according to my frequency analyzers and to my ears, unplated poles are "silkier sounding", so to speak. they give more harmonics with more (h)air but not "glued" together in an harsh sounding package, as are the harmonics with plated poles. Another variable to take in account, FWIW...
I've just posted a testimonial on MLP about plated vs unplated screws... I've the two kinds of screws (same size and shape and AFAIK, same alloy): they don't change the inductance of the pickups (that I always measure) but according to my frequency analyzers and to my ears, unplated poles are "silkier sounding", so to speak. they give more harmonics with more (h)air but not "glued" together in an harsh sounding package, as are the harmonics with plated poles. Another variable to take in account, FWIW...
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Anyone know where to source the correct short allen screws & bobbins?
Anyone know where to source the correct short allen screws & bobbins?
RayBarbeeMusic
New member
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
No one eh?
No one eh?
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
Sourcing poles is a problem. You can buy them at Mojotone, but that doesn't mean they are identical to SD's poles. You can also order them through places like McMaster-Carr, but you need to buy large amounts. AddictionFX says they have the correct poles, but I have had poor luck with them.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Hex poles - does length affect tone?
No. I pirate them from an extensive graveyard of pickups by dozens of manufacturers. LOL
I personally can't disclose specific vendors anyway.
No. I pirate them from an extensive graveyard of pickups by dozens of manufacturers. LOL
I personally can't disclose specific vendors anyway.
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