High Output AlNiCo 3 Pickup?

Mr. Lime

New member
As collector of Ibanez Artist models I have played a bunch of Ibanez Super 58 pickups that I really like.
They are very versatile and work in both bridge and neck position equally well.
Specs are:
7.80 KΩ, 4.65 KHz, AlNiCo III

Seems like a lot of people like the Super 70 too which seem to just have an AlNiCo 8 magnet instead but in my experience I never kept the A8 in the pickups I swapped them in.

So much I like the Super 58, I often wish they would be a little hotter and sharper in the bridge but keeping the sound quality.
Has anybody experimented with AlNiCo 3 magnets in hotter winded pickups? Seems to be rather unusual in hot humbuckers.
Those magnets are sometimes described as weak with soft bottom end and low mids emphasized.
Maybe hex pole pieces would tighten up the bass?
 
A3 has a very weak magnetic field, so a softer response but also a greatly reduced output.
For a long time the prevailing opinion was that A3 was not strong enough to handle a heavier wind.
However, it seems to do quite well in the Custom wind. Yields a crisp tone with a vintagey attack.
Forum member orpheo once described it as a PAFish tone yet with hotter-than-vintage output.
Substantially less output than the SH5 Custom of course.

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Hex poles do generally tighten up the bass response in humbuckers and add come extra clarity to the highs.
IMO the difference might not be enough to entirely compensate for the loose feel of a soft magnet.
But for modding an existing pickup it might help a lot. IMO definitely worth trying as the easiest option by far.

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A more significant change might be to address the magnetic issue directly.
I see two basic possibilities, though probably there are others that haven't occurred to me.

First possibility, changing the magnet.
I love the UA5 in bridge pickups: fairly vintagey mids combined with tight lows and strong highs.
Quite a bit more output than A3, but it doesn't have the same kind of low-mid hump.
Neither does A6, which is fat and loud, almost like A8 only with much mellower highs.
Switching to a different alnico might alter the voicing more than you want in this case, anyway.

Double thick bar magnets are another viable option here.
There's a forum member who has made custom doublethick bars in various combinations for a few of us.
Not sure he's still doing it currently, but if you're interested in getting one I could reach out to him and ask.

Double A3 gives more output and bigger lows, but probably wouldn't deliver the extra highs you want. I have one of those.
Perhaps a double magnet made from A3 layered with A4 or A5 could be an option?

An A5 layer would boost the power, tighten & enhance the lows, and make the highs more modern and cutting.
It might also impose a more aggressive character, emphasizing the upper mids as well as the highs.
An A4 layer would keep the midrange voicing pretty even, while tightening the lows and keeping the vintagey sparkle up top.
It would also give some extra output, just not as bright in the highs or as deep in the bass as A5.

I have a double thick hybrid made from A3 and UA5; it's got more upper-mids than A3 but is definitely stronger and brighter.
But there's a reason why the majority of humbuckers are still made using A5.



Second possibility, magnetic spacers - boosting the primary magnet while adding a different flavor.
One A4 or A5 spacer would likely tighten up the lows and give you brighter highs without revoicing your mids too much.
A single ceramic spacer could be an option too, but its strong field might overpower the personality of the much weaker A3.
Haven't done that so I can't offer an opinion.

If using just one auxiliary mag, I'd place it next to the screw coil for enhanced treble at the bridge.
Using two magnetic spacers is an option too, of course, but would alter the voicing more.

Not sure whether you want to experiment with the neck pickup too - IMO for neck position a plain swap might be preferable.
A4 or UA5: both have fairly vintagey mids and bright, open highs.
But adding magnetic spacers is also an option here.

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As a more elaborate alternative, if you're ambitious and experienced you might think about changing out the slugs.
Not something you'd want to do to a vintage Ibanez pickup of course.
But an option for pickups that aren't collectible.

Replacing the steel slugs with rod magnets yields a more singlecoily voice even when in series, but especially so when split to the slug coil.
Adds immediacy to the pick attack thanks to their tight focus and proximity to the strings.
It's a more modern feel - still, I think using A2 rods should preserve much of the vintagey midrange character.
A2 rods are rich and plenty bright, but don't have the loose lows as when A2 bars are under the coils.
 
I've put A3s in a few hotter winds with some success. I never ended up keeping them, because at the end of the day I gravitate toward low winds with strong magnets for the bridge, but the results were decent and might be what somebody else is looking for

Off the top of why head, I've I tried an A3 in a JB, bare knuckle bootcamp true grit, Air Norton, and DiMarzio transition, all of which are wound >10k. All sounded pretty good to me, just not what I was ultimately looking for__PRESENT
 
As collector of Ibanez Artist models I have played a bunch of Ibanez Super 58 pickups that I really like.
They are very versatile and work in both bridge and neck position equally well.
Specs are:
7.80 KΩ, 4.65 KHz, AlNiCo III

Seems like a lot of people like the Super 70 too which seem to just have an AlNiCo 8 magnet instead but in my experience I never kept the A8 in the pickups I swapped them in.

So much I like the Super 58, I often wish they would be a little hotter and sharper in the bridge but keeping the sound quality.
Has anybody experimented with AlNiCo 3 magnets in hotter winded pickups? Seems to be rather unusual in hot humbuckers.
Those magnets are sometimes described as weak with soft bottom end and low mids emphasized.
Maybe hex pole pieces would tighten up the bass?


Try it and tell us what you think. I'll read your testimonial with interest. :-)


Indifferent side notes to take with a grain of salt:

-Early P90's hosted A3 mags and can be considered as "hot" (their inductance above 6H putting them in the range of high gain humbuckers).

-But A3 then and A3 now are not necessarily identical. BTW, the name of "AlNiCo3" is often used but a bit misleading since there's no cobalt in A3 (only Aluminium, nickel and copper, making it an AlNi3 or AlNiCu3 alloy... in the same way that an A8 is actually made of AlNiCoTi. LOL) . :-)


More important footnote to take more seriously:

Happy New Year everybody! :beerchug:
 
Thanks for the detailed reply!

The magnetic spacers could be an interesting approach. I remember that some pickups already have magnetic spacers but I can't recall exactly which?
Guess the Duncan Invader uses ceramic spacers. Any other reference pickups?

The neck pickup I usually like as it is. Even the split sound is useable to me. Usually I'm not that happy with splitted neck humbuckers but the Super 58 is great. One aspect that I think I like about A3 mags.

Yeah replacing slugs with magnet rods is on my to-do list for months. Always wanted to put them into a neck pickup.
A combination of a magnetic spacer for one coil and the rods for the other coil while leaving the middle bar magnet out might be worth a try. Does anybody tried something like that or knows a pickup that works like that?
Stag Mag does have both coils with rods which I think is overkill as a neck pickup in series.
Different coil winds with different rod magnets in one humbucker always looked promising to me on paper.
Where do you guys get the rod magnets sized for a humbucker from? The ones I found on ebay are staggered and always too long for the humbucker bobbins.

Guess in Europe they are difficult to source.
 
A combination of a magnetic spacer for one coil and the rods for the other coil while leaving the middle bar magnet out might be worth a try. Does anybody tried something like that or knows a pickup that works like that?

It should make a coil noticeably louder than the other.

If I wanted to tinker with such things, I'd rather put 3 rod mags in one coil under the 3 first strings and 3 other rod mags under the 3 other strings in the other coil. I'd then add inert slugs in the remaining holes for more inductance and more beef, or I would leave them empty for a lower inductance and a more single coil sounding result.

FWIW. Good luck in your tests! :-)
 
its kinda like a custom custom but more balanced sounding, the lower output matches better with single coils too
 
its kinda like a custom custom but more balanced sounding, the lower output matches better with single coils too
Ok. I suppose that I can hear it balancing with true singles. That would make for a nice SSH strat.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
 
Chris Carter of Sin pickups wound me a couple hotter A3 pickups several years ago and they were stellar. Mine were overwound versions of his "Sinbucker LT" pickups.

You can hear the regular LT pickups with A3 mags here, 9K neck & 11K bridge (not me playing):

 
The custom A3 versus the usual custom custom, has a bit less output, the same sweetness in the top end, but with a slightly less saggy bottom, more crunch and bite in the midrange. The Custom wind is just so versatile and I wouldn't know if the a3 would work in other pickups. In a JB, for example, no idea.
 
Chris Carter of Sin pickups wound me a couple hotter A3 pickups several years ago and they were stellar. Mine were overwound versions of his "Sinbucker LT" pickups.

You can hear the regular LT pickups with A3 mags here, 9K neck & 11K bridge (not me playing):



Sounds good so far.

I think about swapping the magnet of a Dimarzio Dominion with an A3. Already tried A5 and A8 in 2 guitars but I liked the TB-4 more.
 
My Wolfgang has a neck pickup that is not entirely unlike an underwound Custom (despite what the specs will tell you) with an A3.

It's one of the few neck HBs I actually like the sound of in series.
 
Chris Carter of Sin pickups wound me a couple hotter A3 pickups several years ago and they were stellar. Mine were overwound versions of his "Sinbucker LT" pickups.

You can hear the regular LT pickups with A3 mags here, 9K neck & 11K bridge (not me playing):


I have a set of those that were made with A4s. Mine read 9.2K and 11.7K.
Now I'm thinking I should try an A3 in the neck one.
 
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