Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

[Mincer]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

So does that mean there's no such thing as a high-output PAF? Cause I've often heard the term PAF on steroids for a few SD pickups. Or even hot-rodded PAF for say, EVH's early tone. Or are they meaning it's high output, but has a specific tonal structure (ie. more mids, etc)?

Are PAF (in tonal terms, not the technical way) and 'vintage tone' interchangeable?

Well, a Custom is sort of the same EQ profile as a PAF, but it sure doesn't feel like one when you use it. There is a lot more compression.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

For me, I go with Seths, Ants, Classic '57s, and BB 1&2s...all with a clean boost (if I need it) into my Mesa amps. Keep in mind, I am more classic rock and blues than metal. On most of the Mark amps, I'm only running the GAIN on the Lead channel at about 6-7.

Ditto for my G&L Legacys...vintage single coils...with a clean boost.

Bill

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

the pearly gates pickup was made to sound like the guitar, not to copy that pickup. It is very much a PAF in terms of specs, wire, magnet etc but not really tone wise, for some reason. it's gnarlier. more nasty.

Yes and no–the Pearly Gates were designed to sound like Billy Gibbons' 1959 Les Paul...but the pickups themselves were studied very heavily by Seymour. SD touts these as a PAF style and deems it important enough to note that all PGs are wound on the Seymour's Leesona winding machine from the early Gibson factory in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

As far as not tone wise...what is the "PAF" tone? Billy Gibbons' deems the PGs to be close enough that he uses them in his LPs.

What was the guitarist using when he recorded X “vintage” song with the sound you’re looking for? That’s going to be the best indicator of what you want to get. Try to narrow it down to one tone you want to go after, instead of an era of tones which were made with different guitars and amps.

This.

Exactly part of the problem. "Vintage" does not mean low output, when used correctly. "Vintage" is used to describe a period or year, which is supposed to be specified along with the word. You can have an '80's vintage JB, for example. Is that a low-output pickup? Is a '70's vintage Super Distortion?

How is this? "Vintage" can have any year attached to it, even this year.

Exactly.

The point is that the word has a very nebulous meaning when used alone. It needs a "specifier" along with it.

And this.


There is no singular "vintage" tone...there are many different tones from various time frames that could be deemed "vintage."

 

[chadd]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

For me, I go with Seths, Ants, Classic '57s, and BB 1&2s...all with a clean boost (if I need it) into my Mesa amps. Keep in mind, I am more classic rock and blues than metal. On most of the Mark amps, I'm only running the GAIN on the Lead channel at about 6-7.

Ditto for my G&L Legacys...vintage single coils...with a clean boost.

Bill

Even the gain of the lead channel on my Road King never goes above noon.

 

[Open lane]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

I could hardly believe it when my friend told me the x2n was made in 1979. That’s dimarzio’s highest output pickup, i believe. The topic becomes “does it ‘sound’ modern?” More than “is it modern?”

Things probably evolved that way because as more modern amps evolved, people were using the pickups differently

 

[Demanic]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

I have an X2N in the bridge of a guitar that used to have a D-Activator in it. The D-Activator sounded much more modern. Very tight, somewhat scooped. The X2N just roars.

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[Jacew]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

That's quite overthinking... Difference between "vintage" and "modern" is just obvious if you don't nitpick about it.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

There is definitely something that changes when you go to a hot pickup. Actually, a lot of things. Obviously, wind and magnets....

And a low output pup cranked via the amp is not the same thing either.

And of course, often, a low output into high gain sounds better / different than a high output. I generally use hot pickups, but also keep the gain down. Hot pup + hot gain = hot mess.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

That's quite overthinking... Difference between "vintage" and "modern" is just obvious if you don't nitpick about it.

Overthinking?
Seriously?

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[Ben1962]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

As you move into higher output pickups, everything gets smoother and you lose some of the old school rock n roll rough edges to the tone. Especially when paired with a modern, high gain amp. High output pickups can get that vintage style tone with a non master volume amp or something that doesn't have a Mesa, 5150, SLO type gain structure.

I have a Vox AC10 I never use. I took it out for a spin today and used an ALT8/Demon and it sounded pretty good! Not the shimmer of single coils, but nice none the less

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

I think of hotter pickups as another way of stacking gain.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

Hotter pickups will certainly add compression, and take away touch-sensitivity, which isn't so good for what I play. I have yet to hear a high output pickup I really like.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

Hotter pickups will certainly add compression, and take away touch-sensitivity, which isn't so good for what I play. I have yet to hear a high output pickup I really like.

Have you ever played Lace Alumitones, or Deathbuckers?

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[Mincer]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

Have you ever played Lace Alumitones, or Deathbuckers?

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Just with someone's else's gear, not my own rig.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

Just with someone's else's gear, not my own rig.

What did you think of them?

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[Boogie Bill]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

I liked the tones from the Gibson 496r/500t pickups I had in my Les Paul Classic Premiums, but the were just too hot for my Mesas. I think they would be great with a NMV amp, like a vintage BF or Marshall; even a JCM 800.

For my style, much happier with the Seths and Ants I swapped in.

Bill

 

[Mincer]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

What did you think of them?

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Both didn't have the warmth that I am used to, but I can see why metal players love them.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

Overthinking?
Seriously?

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I was referring to earlier posts about what is vintage

 

[Juanhanglo]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

So I'm in the market for a new set of pickups and have decided I want a slightly beefier vintage type tone for my LP.

One question I have is - I like a hotter bridge that'll push the amp into overdrive the more I dig in, and I've found pickups in the 12-14k range do that for me. however, I'm now beginning to question - do you lose that vintage flavor the hotter you go? I was A/Bing my Peavey Wolfgang with an axe that has an Sh-14 and though I love the former pickup, its IMHO not the kind of sound you'd go for if you're playing Zep, etc. For me it starts to shine for harder edged rock (like hair metal) and beyond.

The SH-14 which very much dances on that thin line between power and vintage tone.

Thoughts?

dude, dimarzio 36th anniversary set.
seriously.

paf-ish with a bit more mids. higher output, but not crazy. I think they are 7.3k/250mv neck and 8.6k/285mv bridge. slightly hotter than paf territory. they have the touch sensitivity you are looking for too. work great for everything except modern metal. I guess megadeth would be about the heaviest they go? something like that.

I like them so much, I am ordering two more sets.

 

[GrilledChickenSalad]

Re: Higher Output = non-vintage tone?

Seth Lovers...=....primo vintage tone....want some beef...get a boost circuit....

what he said.