Highest quality replacement tuners?

Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

I've had great experiences with Hipshot, Gotoh, and Grover. These two are probably my favorites.

Gotoh Delta 510 Locking Tuners:
Gotoh.jpg

Hipshot Open-Gear Locking Tuners:
Hipshot.jpg

BTW, each of these brands give you the option of selecting from a variety of button styles from vintage to modern.
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

Those open gear locking Hipshots look nice! My favorite tuners are the one on my Steinberger, but of course those are purpose built for that guitar.
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

I have the open gear locking Hipshots on my partscaster (3x3 headstock), with plastic buttons. They work, they look good, and they are well made. Smooth turning, thick chrome, and made in USA. I can take or leave the locking function but I don't regret it.
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

More about my experience with the Hipshot

The main problem is putting enough tension in the string by hand before locking it with the thumb wheel. So the tuning is off by as much as an octave for the strings and I have to make a lot of turning of the thumb wheel and not just a quarter turn. You can see that in the image.


Another problem is that the plate holes do not line up with the peg holes on my Squier Affinity. You can see this in the image. Also the plate really does not hold the tuners from moving. There is a lot of sloppiness when I put the tuners on the plate. They are also so flimsy. I would have preferred a continuous flange on both sides of the plate so that the tuners cant move. The current design does not have continuous a flange on both sides. You want the tuners to sit in a grove created by the continuous flange on either side like a channel so that it will not rotate. That is not the case with the current plate.


The tuners move easily when I tighten the nut. Since I cant see the other side while tightening the nut, I cant make sure the tuners are all along a straight line. It becomes a 2 man job. I may have to ditch the plates and use the screws. The main reason for getting these tuners was not to drill holes on my guitar. I have to decide whether to drill and use the screws or just make the peg holes bigger so that the plate does not partially cover the peg holes. Either way I am damaging the headstock. It is a cheap guitar. So I dont really care.

But the main problem is the need to do winding. I broke a #11 string while winding a locking tuner!! It looks like I have to use regular tuners for the E and B and locking tuners for the other 4 strings. I cant trust the post in these locking tuners to hold up against a thin string which is under a lot of tension. It is bound to slip. Regular tuners with the manual winding, using the under-over method is probably the way to go. I have that on my old Lyon and I only check the tuning like once a week. This manual method holds the tuning very well.
 

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Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

mupi said:
The tuners move easily when I tighten the nut. Since I cant see the other side while tightening the nut, I cant make sure the tuners are all along a straight line. It becomes a 2 man job. I may have to ditch the plates and use the screws. The main reason for getting these tuners was not to drill holes on my guitar. I have to decide whether to drill and use the screws or just make the peg holes bigger so that the plate does not partially cover the peg holes. Either way I am damaging the headstock. It is a cheap guitar. So I dont really care.
Click to expand...

You don't need to drill, the screws are self tapping.
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

Yep I also like to drill a pilot hole for anything before putting a screw. Whether I drill or not, eventually there is going to be a hole made by the screw :-)

In my case it is a Squier. So it doesnt matter. If I were to put extra holes on an expensive guitar, I would not use such tuners as it would affect the resale value. The small hole that you see in the image is the hole for the stock tuner.
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

Line the tuning machine up, mark the center of the mounting hole with a little awl or punch (or nail for that matter). Drill a pilot hole (nice and straight) and use some wax or soap on the threads of the screws.

Good luck not snapping a screw or, at least not tearing up the head first, if you don't drill.
 
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Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

mupi said:
More about my experience with the Hipshot

The main problem is putting enough tension in the string by hand before locking it with the thumb wheel. So the tuning is off by as much as an octave for the strings and I have to make a lot of turning of the thumb wheel and not just a quarter turn. You can see that in the image.


Another problem is that the plate holes do not line up with the peg holes on my Squier Affinity. You can see this in the image. Also the plate really does not hold the tuners from moving. There is a lot of sloppiness when I put the tuners on the plate. They are also so flimsy. I would have preferred a continuous flange on both sides of the plate so that the tuners cant move. The current design does not have continuous a flange on both sides. You want the tuners to sit in a grove created by the continuous flange on either side like a channel so that it will not rotate. That is not the case with the current plate.


The tuners move easily when I tighten the nut. Since I cant see the other side while tightening the nut, I cant make sure the tuners are all along a straight line. It becomes a 2 man job. I may have to ditch the plates and use the screws. The main reason for getting these tuners was not to drill holes on my guitar. I have to decide whether to drill and use the screws or just make the peg holes bigger so that the plate does not partially cover the peg holes. Either way I am damaging the headstock. It is a cheap guitar. So I dont really care.

But the main problem is the need to do winding. I broke a #11 string while winding a locking tuner!! It looks like I have to use regular tuners for the E and B and locking tuners for the other 4 strings. I cant trust the post in these locking tuners to hold up against a thin string which is under a lot of tension. It is bound to slip. Regular tuners with the manual winding, using the under-over method is probably the way to go. I have that on my old Lyon and I only check the tuning like once a week. This manual method holds the tuning very well.
Click to expand...

You seem to be struggling with an incredibly easy task, finding terrible problems in things that are extremely easy to resolve if you have basic mechanical sense. Your plates line up with your tuner holes fine; you just have them cheated too far one way, i.e. you do not need to enlarge any tuner holes. No, it is not a two-man job – that is ridiculous. Yes, you can see the tuners on the back of the headstock as you tighten the nut on the front of them – are you telling me you can't reach around to tighten while looking at the back of the headstock? No, the adapter plates do not need to have a full lip on both sides in order to work. Simply hold the tuners in alignment using a straight edge, and tighten the nuts until the tuners hold firmly in position. It's the same deal with or without the new style Hipshot adapter plates. That is how tuners are generally put on in proper alignment.

You also seem to be hung up on the idea that you must have only a quarter turn on your strings with locking tuners. Firstly, it's no big deal if you don't have only a quarter turn, or if you go around once. Secondly, it is common for the plain strings to go all the way around at least once. Thirdly, I already told you how to deal with that problem, if it is, indeed, a problem to you. Pull harder on the string and tighten harder on the lock wheel. Put some force into it.

I have to ask: have you read any installation and/or usage instructions for locking tuners?
 
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Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

mupi said:
More about my experience with the Hipshot

The main problem is putting enough tension in the string by hand before locking it with the thumb wheel. So the tuning is off by as much as an octave for the strings and I have to make a lot of turning of the thumb wheel and not just a quarter turn. You can see that in the image.


Another problem is that the plate holes do not line up with the peg holes on my Squier Affinity. You can see this in the image. Also the plate really does not hold the tuners from moving. There is a lot of sloppiness when I put the tuners on the plate. They are also so flimsy. I would have preferred a continuous flange on both sides of the plate so that the tuners cant move. The current design does not have continuous a flange on both sides. You want the tuners to sit in a grove created by the continuous flange on either side like a channel so that it will not rotate. That is not the case with the current plate.


The tuners move easily when I tighten the nut. Since I cant see the other side while tightening the nut, I cant make sure the tuners are all along a straight line. It becomes a 2 man job. I may have to ditch the plates and use the screws. The main reason for getting these tuners was not to drill holes on my guitar. I have to decide whether to drill and use the screws or just make the peg holes bigger so that the plate does not partially cover the peg holes. Either way I am damaging the headstock. It is a cheap guitar. So I dont really care.

But the main problem is the need to do winding. I broke a #11 string while winding a locking tuner!! It looks like I have to use regular tuners for the E and B and locking tuners for the other 4 strings. I cant trust the post in these locking tuners to hold up against a thin string which is under a lot of tension. It is bound to slip. Regular tuners with the manual winding, using the under-over method is probably the way to go. I have that on my old Lyon and I only check the tuning like once a week. This manual method holds the tuning very well.
Click to expand...

You have one bracket upside down
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

ehdwuld said:
You have one bracket upside down
Click to expand...

I tried the other way also. Still the plate holes didnt line up with the peg holes. It could be a problem with my guitar. It is a Squire Affinity. New guitar though. But a Squier is a Squier :-)
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

If you put the brackets on an in line headstock
They should be the same way round
The tuners are
Unless your trying to bugger it up because "it's just a Squire"

I dont know which way is right
I dont have those

When I change a set of tuners
I try to get a drop in set with the screw holes in the same orientation
If not i just mount what I have

I dont worry bout the price of the guitar or if it diminishes the resale value
Buying one diminishes the value

I put the hardware that makes it work the way I want it to
The tiny holes on back of the headstock are only noticed by dooshes trying to strike a better deal
No one playing it notices the holes
No one hearing it notices the holes
No one standing next to you while you are playing notices the holes, save the aforementioned doosh
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

ehdwuld said:
If you put the brackets on an in line headstock
They should be the same way round
The tuners are
Unless your trying to bugger it up because "it's just a Squire"

I dont know which way is right
I dont have those

When I change a set of tuners
I try to get a drop in set with the screw holes in the same orientation
If not i just mount what I have

I dont worry bout the price of the guitar or if it diminishes the resale value
Buying one diminishes the value

I put the hardware that makes it work the way I want it to
The tiny holes on back of the headstock are only noticed by dooshes trying to strike a better deal
No one playing it notices the holes
No one hearing it notices the holes
No one standing next to you while you are playing notices the holes, save the aforementioned doosh
Click to expand...

Then I'm a "doosh". I don't care what any one else does, his or her screw holes don't bother me. But it erks the hell out of me to leave visible, open screw holes in the back of the headstock. Those ugly ass Hipshot UMP plates bug me as well. Not too bad on the 6 in line's but they look like hell on the 3 + 3's. I guess I should post my screw hole erkage in the pet peeve thread. ;)
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

Update: I got an email from the Hipshot rep that the UMP holes do not match well with Squire. He said it matches some 80% of the guitars and Squire is not one of them. He even said elongating the holes on the Squier is an option.

I dont want to waste my time engaging in trolls that I am not mechanically inclined. If you have a Squier and you want to add locking tuners, look for some other brand. You are better of making the small holes for the pins in other brands than elongating the main peg hole to fit the UMP.

The rep said he will send me 2 regular tuners so that I can at least use the other 4 locking tuners as I am having problems getting the E and B to lock. When I asked him how much he is going to charge me, I never got a reply. A regular tuner is some $13 at their web site. I already spent $80 on the locking tuners. I am not interested in spending another $25 to fix the issues with a $80 tuner set. No thanks. BTW even the low E locking tuner is not holding the tuning. I keep tuning the low E frequently. I cant tighten the thumbwheel any further by hand.

I would rather return the set and use the regular tuners on my Squier. With the under-over manual tuning, I dont lose tuning for many days. A lot of people say it is the binding of the string at the nut that causes loss of tuning. With the under-over manual tuning I dont lose tuning over many days on my old Lyon. I think I put some graphite powder to the string grooves on the nut on my Lyon. But I dont think that is the main reason it is holding up the tuning. It is the manual locking winding and also not using the whammy bar. I put a lot of turns on the post when I do the manual locking winding.

More turns => more string surface area => higher force required to undo the winding for the same static coefficient of friction. It will also help if the tuning peg post is not super smooth as that increases the friction. I wonder why manufacturers dont give a mat finish to the post of a regular tuner instead of a smooth finish to make it visually look good. I bet it is the cost as it is cheaper to just dip the whole thing to get the chrome or whatever plating than do mat finish for a portion of the post. I may rough up the post of my Squier tuners using a sandpaper as I dont care about resale value of my Squier.
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

That link is about rope. Rope is a soft and flexible material that will grip a surface in a very different way than a metal string. On guitars you're talking about a slick steel string winding round a slick metal post. It's not an apples to apples comparison. I have read a half dozen books on guitar repair, maintenance and setup. I've also read countless articles.

Most (not all however), but most of the info I've read says that too many wraps around the post is not effective for tuning stability. The same can be said for too few wraps. The optimal number of wraps is between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 wraps around the post for each string. I recently read an article or excerpt that said it's better to have an extra wrap per string on one side, but now I can't remember if it was on wound or plain strings.

Regardless, all of the material I've read says too many wraps is as bad as too few. I don't claim to be an expert and I read to find the things that work for me. Putting 2.5 to 3 wraps per string on all of my non locking tuners works perfectly, once I stretch out the strings properly and seat the winds on the post. My vintage center hole strat tuners from Callaham are as rock solid in their tuning stability as my locking tuners are. It's the only guitar I have that I won't convert to locking tuners. I don't know if it's the vintage design of feeding the string straight down a hole in the top of the post and then bending the string 90 degrees to start winding that makes them hold tune so well, or if it's the quality of the tuners themselves.

As for locking tuners, it always takes closer to a full wind to bring the plain strings to pitch. It's never been an issue for me. If you feel that you can't pull the plain strings tight enough by hand, try gripping the string with a set of pliers when you're pulling those strings. That should give you more leverage. Perhaps having 6 separate tuning machines vs. the single long strip would give you the added stability you seek?

I don't know enough about mechanical things to help you with the fit being off, but ItsaBass really knows what he's talking about. His advice has been helpful to me on many occasions.

Good luck.
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

The physics/mechanics is basically the same.

It is a rope under tension similar to the string under tension, wound on a pipe like a string wound on the tuning post.
You can have a jute rope or Nylon rope or a steel rope.

A smooth steel rope or a steel string wound on a smooth iron pipe or polished tuning post does not have adequate friction to generate the resisting force. Lack of friction is a simple reason why a Nylon rope slips while a jute rope stays. But a jute rope does not have the same strength as a Nylon rope and so will break sooner. A steel rope will take more load than a Nylon rope before breaking as steel is stronger than Nylon.


The tuning post can be made rough instead of polished chrome and that would make it just like a rough iron pipe.

One end of the rope or the guitar string has the weight or it is attached to the bridge, causing tension at this end.. The other end of the rope or string is wound around the pipe or post and this end is free as in the guitar and as shown in one of the images. What is holding this end or preventing this end from slipping is the friction. More turns exponentially increases friction, reducing the need to secure this end like a person holding the end in that image.

Lets take out the guitar wood effect on tuning. i.e change in room temperature and humidity can cause the wood to deform and change the tension and hence the tuning. What else can cause the string to unwrap? Well vibration in the string due to just playing or excessive use of the whammy bar can and that will loosen the string.

Now if the other end of the string is secured, then the winding or turning is not required, like in locking tuners. But how well it is secured depends on how well the tightening of the thumbwheel holds against a thin string. It is hard to press against a very thin string and hold it in place and this is probably why the thin strings slip when using locking tuners. The thumbwheel does get lose due to vibration and all it needs is a little gap to cause the thin string to slip.

One may frequently have to tighten the thumbwheel to keep the strings locked? May be they could use a locking washer like you use with bolts/nuts. You know the one that is slit and twisted and becomes flat when you tighted the bolt.
 
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Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

I had a problem with the high E slipping on a set of locking tuners. Once. I was trying a new brand. I threw them in the trash and bought a set of the brand I’d been using.
 
Re: Highest quality replacement tuners?

I've used a few brands of locking tuners but haven't had a problem. There are a lot of aftermarket parts that don't fit Squiers, though. From pickups, to bridges to pickguards- Squier just sort of does their own thing.
 
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