kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
Rad cant wait to see this monster unfold
Rad cant wait to see this monster unfold
Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
- Thread starter Dr. Vegetable
- Start date
The Dali
MeltedClockologist
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
I think it is a cool project, don't get me wrong. But it is funny that people dig guitars made out of abused pieces of plywood, yet I hear people go on and on about how much the wood (body and neck) affects a guitar's tone.
I think it is a cool project, don't get me wrong. But it is funny that people dig guitars made out of abused pieces of plywood, yet I hear people go on and on about how much the wood (body and neck) affects a guitar's tone.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
Oh, I absolutely agree.
The thing is, I have plenty of guitars that are built "correctly." If I want a full-throated mahogany monster or a nice bright basswood superstrat, I have several to choose from. I don't need this one to be the most versatile tone in my arsenal.
I also have been studying the materials, and there is actually a bit of genius at play with this idea. A skateboard deck is not just your basic sheet of pine plywood. They are made from choice veneers of maple that are pre-formed and pre-stressed when the ply layers are glued together. This gives the deck some strength and rigidity that go far beyond what it would have if it was not purpose-formed to that size and shape. The same contours can be used for the guitar body and headstock, so all the same strength points are there. If you were custom forming sheets of plywood to make guitar bodies out of, you would probably make them this way. So I actually think this idea has quite a bit of merit from a construction point of view.
From the videos I've seen, these can be made to play well and sound good. And of course, you can't ignore the appeal of a unique instrument like this. Think stage not studio.
Hoping I don't have to postpone working on this, but I'm trying to meet a deadline at work.
Oh, I absolutely agree.
The thing is, I have plenty of guitars that are built "correctly." If I want a full-throated mahogany monster or a nice bright basswood superstrat, I have several to choose from. I don't need this one to be the most versatile tone in my arsenal.
I also have been studying the materials, and there is actually a bit of genius at play with this idea. A skateboard deck is not just your basic sheet of pine plywood. They are made from choice veneers of maple that are pre-formed and pre-stressed when the ply layers are glued together. This gives the deck some strength and rigidity that go far beyond what it would have if it was not purpose-formed to that size and shape. The same contours can be used for the guitar body and headstock, so all the same strength points are there. If you were custom forming sheets of plywood to make guitar bodies out of, you would probably make them this way. So I actually think this idea has quite a bit of merit from a construction point of view.
From the videos I've seen, these can be made to play well and sound good. And of course, you can't ignore the appeal of a unique instrument like this. Think stage not studio.
Hoping I don't have to postpone working on this, but I'm trying to meet a deadline at work.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
I think I have everything I need for the build except for strings and a strap.
Ingredients:
I would have preferred to get decks that weren't pre-drilled for trucks, but I can work with these. Measuring and cutting to commence shortly. Sure beats working!
I think I have everything I need for the build except for strings and a strap.
Ingredients:
- Two maple skateboard decks
- Pre-slotted maple fretboard, 25.5" scale 24-fret
- Plastic nut (borrowed from another guitar, but destined to be replaced with a better one before I get that far)
- 18" truss rod with 4mm hex nut (still on the fence about whether I'll go to the trouble of installing it)
- Dunlop pre-cut medium fret wire
- 1/4" output jack
- Fender strat-style jack cup
- Fender-style fixed 6-saddle bridge, rear-loading
- Kent Armstrong WPU12 single coil pickup
- 250K volume pot
- Gotoh 3+3 tuners
- Strap buttons
- Neck mount screws and finish washers
- Piece of stranded wire for bridge ground strap (not pictured)
I would have preferred to get decks that weren't pre-drilled for trucks, but I can work with these. Measuring and cutting to commence shortly. Sure beats working!
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*grabs popcorn*
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
Popcorn would be the right food. Off to a rough start already. I am already considering a slight course correction.
All I will say at this point is that it's not easy to cut straight lines into a curved board. At least I still have all my digits and appendages...
Popcorn would be the right food. Off to a rough start already. I am already considering a slight course correction.
All I will say at this point is that it's not easy to cut straight lines into a curved board. At least I still have all my digits and appendages...
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
This is harder than it looks. Still have some shaping to do on the body and headstock. I have some ideas for how to radically simplify this build. I can always "do it right" later if it doesn't work out. As a side note, it took less than half of the 32" green board to make the body.
This is harder than it looks. Still have some shaping to do on the body and headstock. I have some ideas for how to radically simplify this build. I can always "do it right" later if it doesn't work out. As a side note, it took less than half of the 32" green board to make the body.
The Dali
MeltedClockologist
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
And if you turn up the distortion it just simply doesn't matter. :headbang:
Oh, I absolutely agree.
The thing is, I have plenty of guitars that are built "correctly." If I want a full-throated mahogany monster or a nice bright basswood superstrat, I have several to choose from. I don't need this one to be the most versatile tone in my arsenal.
I also have been studying the materials, and there is actually a bit of genius at play with this idea. A skateboard deck is not just your basic sheet of pine plywood. They are made from choice veneers of maple that are pre-formed and pre-stressed when the ply layers are glued together. This gives the deck some strength and rigidity that go far beyond what it would have if it was not purpose-formed to that size and shape. The same contours can be used for the guitar body and headstock, so all the same strength points are there. If you were custom forming sheets of plywood to make guitar bodies out of, you would probably make them this way. So I actually think this idea has quite a bit of merit from a construction point of view.
From the videos I've seen, these can be made to play well and sound good. And of course, you can't ignore the appeal of a unique instrument like this. Think stage not studio.
Hoping I don't have to postpone working on this, but I'm trying to meet a deadline at work.
And if you turn up the distortion it just simply doesn't matter. :headbang:
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
So I made a bit more progress. Here is where I started this morning:
I sanded down the neck and glued on the fretboard, then shaped the neck a little bit.
I liked the bare wood, and it wasn't too much work, so I also sanded the green paint off the body. Then I drilled for the tuners and mounted them, and drilled and attached the neck to the body for the first time. (The bridge is not attached in this picture.)
So far, I've been making mistakes like crazy and trying to adjust as I go. I think I might end up making another one from scratch after I finish learning all of these valuable lessons.
For one thing, I think the pre-slotted fretboard may have been a mistake. It adds too much height to the fretboard, so I will either have to cut the neck pocket very deep or shim the bridge, neither of which is a very good option. Had I simply sanded and slotted the neck blank without adding the fretboard, I would already have a set of strings on this by now. Or I might switch to a Tune-O-Matic to get more clearance.
I also found that the Gotoh tuners I bought wanted to be mounted on a slightly thicker headstock. So I took the mounting nuts to a grinding wheel and cut about 3/8" off the threaded end so they would mount flush. It wasn't a hard modification, but I had to clean them up carefully with a small file to get them to thread properly and not bind the tuner posts.
I guess I knew this would be a learning experience...
So I made a bit more progress. Here is where I started this morning:
I sanded down the neck and glued on the fretboard, then shaped the neck a little bit.
I liked the bare wood, and it wasn't too much work, so I also sanded the green paint off the body. Then I drilled for the tuners and mounted them, and drilled and attached the neck to the body for the first time. (The bridge is not attached in this picture.)
So far, I've been making mistakes like crazy and trying to adjust as I go. I think I might end up making another one from scratch after I finish learning all of these valuable lessons.
For one thing, I think the pre-slotted fretboard may have been a mistake. It adds too much height to the fretboard, so I will either have to cut the neck pocket very deep or shim the bridge, neither of which is a very good option. Had I simply sanded and slotted the neck blank without adding the fretboard, I would already have a set of strings on this by now. Or I might switch to a Tune-O-Matic to get more clearance.
I also found that the Gotoh tuners I bought wanted to be mounted on a slightly thicker headstock. So I took the mounting nuts to a grinding wheel and cut about 3/8" off the threaded end so they would mount flush. It wasn't a hard modification, but I had to clean them up carefully with a small file to get them to thread properly and not bind the tuner posts.
I guess I knew this would be a learning experience...
kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
Looks rad bro but theres one problem, That deck looks brand new? You have to use second hand materials to really get the hippy mojo haha. If i ever do one it would be from a old single kick 80's deck, there just a bit wider and extra retro imo. Anyway keep the pics coming Dc looks epic so far
Looks rad bro but theres one problem, That deck looks brand new? You have to use second hand materials to really get the hippy mojo haha. If i ever do one it would be from a old single kick 80's deck, there just a bit wider and extra retro imo. Anyway keep the pics coming Dc looks epic so far
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
Today I routed out the neck pocket. I didn't want to make the pocket too thin/weak, so I also routed the heel of the neck where it sits in the pocket to lower the fingerboard closer to the top face of the guitar. I think it needs to go just a tiny bit lower from where it is, but not bad for a first fit.
Once I had the neck re-mounted, I measured the bridge and drilled holes for mounting screws and also for the strings, then mounted the bridge and strung it up. Everything lines up well and the neck looks straight, but the high E string is bottoming out. I think I can fix this by sanding the heel.
There are some problems I want to make note of at this stage. I let the strings load against the back of the bridge plate, so the double-wound portion of the string ends reach just up to the saddles. No good. So I'll probably have to do something about that.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I had to modify the tuner hardware to mount them on such a thin headstock. This means the tuner posts extend higher than they really should. So the high and low E strings do not have much of a break angle at the nut. I handled this by putting several winds on each post when I strung it up, but I could think about slapping a string tree on there if it gets too unruly. I would also look for lower profile tuners, although the ones I have are already pretty low compared to others I have specs for.
So I am strumming away on it now, and it sounds Ok acoustically. It is a weird experience playing a fretless 6-string, though.
Today I routed out the neck pocket. I didn't want to make the pocket too thin/weak, so I also routed the heel of the neck where it sits in the pocket to lower the fingerboard closer to the top face of the guitar. I think it needs to go just a tiny bit lower from where it is, but not bad for a first fit.
Once I had the neck re-mounted, I measured the bridge and drilled holes for mounting screws and also for the strings, then mounted the bridge and strung it up. Everything lines up well and the neck looks straight, but the high E string is bottoming out. I think I can fix this by sanding the heel.
There are some problems I want to make note of at this stage. I let the strings load against the back of the bridge plate, so the double-wound portion of the string ends reach just up to the saddles. No good. So I'll probably have to do something about that.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I had to modify the tuner hardware to mount them on such a thin headstock. This means the tuner posts extend higher than they really should. So the high and low E strings do not have much of a break angle at the nut. I handled this by putting several winds on each post when I strung it up, but I could think about slapping a string tree on there if it gets too unruly. I would also look for lower profile tuners, although the ones I have are already pretty low compared to others I have specs for.
So I am strumming away on it now, and it sounds Ok acoustically. It is a weird experience playing a fretless 6-string, though.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
A bit of an update. The guitar has been strung up since Sunday. At first I raised the saddles to get the strings to stop buzzing. As you might imagine, this put a bit of strain on the neck, and it bowed quite a bit. I brought the saddles back down and it leveled out again. I can get a whammy bar effect by putting a small amount of pressure on the neck, or even by turning quickly while holding the guitar. It is still playable, but not ideal.
So clearly, one deck plus one fingerboard is not really enough rigidity for a proper neck. I'm trying to decide if I can rescue this one, or if I should build a new neck from scratch.
One option would be to glue another layer to the back of the neck and do some shaping. I could put the truss rod in if I did that. I could also try glueing a reinforcing strap to the back side of the neck to put some reverse tension into it.
I am also considering some unconventional approaches, too. One idea I am toying with is whether I could use a low bass string running through a channel in the neck to act as a very compact truss rod mechanism. The neck would be adjusted by turning a seventh tuner on the headstock to counteract the force of the strings. This might be too resonant, so I could also just use one or two lengths of steel baling wire to do the same job.
Any thoughts on this? I'm sure the luthiers on the forum are rolling their eyes at my wanderings, but I'm having a lot of fun thinking of unusual ways to make this instrument work. I should point out that it is playable enough in its current form that I'm tempted to just fret it up and call it a day.
A bit of an update. The guitar has been strung up since Sunday. At first I raised the saddles to get the strings to stop buzzing. As you might imagine, this put a bit of strain on the neck, and it bowed quite a bit. I brought the saddles back down and it leveled out again. I can get a whammy bar effect by putting a small amount of pressure on the neck, or even by turning quickly while holding the guitar. It is still playable, but not ideal.
So clearly, one deck plus one fingerboard is not really enough rigidity for a proper neck. I'm trying to decide if I can rescue this one, or if I should build a new neck from scratch.
One option would be to glue another layer to the back of the neck and do some shaping. I could put the truss rod in if I did that. I could also try glueing a reinforcing strap to the back side of the neck to put some reverse tension into it.
I am also considering some unconventional approaches, too. One idea I am toying with is whether I could use a low bass string running through a channel in the neck to act as a very compact truss rod mechanism. The neck would be adjusted by turning a seventh tuner on the headstock to counteract the force of the strings. This might be too resonant, so I could also just use one or two lengths of steel baling wire to do the same job.
Any thoughts on this? I'm sure the luthiers on the forum are rolling their eyes at my wanderings, but I'm having a lot of fun thinking of unusual ways to make this instrument work. I should point out that it is playable enough in its current form that I'm tempted to just fret it up and call it a day.
kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
You could try my special raphtech method of strengthening a neck? There's all sorts of materials out there you could try. I was thinking even some sort of plastic/steel fly screen pet mesh glued on than sealed and finished. Just an idea that i thought may work for your project,
This is material. And holy **** does it add strength. Of course this is just my opinion to actually try it/make it is a huge job and as far as i know i am the only one who is doing this on necks and fb sides.
Notice how it caps the fretboard and neck.
You could try my special raphtech method of strengthening a neck? There's all sorts of materials out there you could try. I was thinking even some sort of plastic/steel fly screen pet mesh glued on than sealed and finished. Just an idea that i thought may work for your project,
This is material. And holy **** does it add strength. Of course this is just my opinion to actually try it/make it is a huge job and as far as i know i am the only one who is doing this on necks and fb sides.
Notice how it caps the fretboard and neck.
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Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
Interesting... Are you saying the skull pattern on that neck is some kind of fabric? I'm curious about what you did there.
Interesting... Are you saying the skull pattern on that neck is some kind of fabric? I'm curious about what you did there.
Justin Read
New member
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
The male version come with a Wang bar
The male version come with a Wang bar
kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
Yes that's right. Basically here is how it goes.
1. Tightbond coat
2. lay fabric on. monitor while it drys making sure no bubbles appear.
3. roughly trim around frets with a Stanley knife and nut etc. (note if some areas have missed the glue, just put a small amount in that area and press the material back down)
4. 2 more coats of sanding sealer. once dry sand with 400
5. Use a fresh Stanley blade and trim again this time along the fretboard.
6. more sealer coats until the weave in the material is filled. with sanding between coats.
7. Then just clean up around the fretboard with 600 and the knife if need be
8. Then use the clear/paint you desire to finish it.
Tips. use a fresh blade often especially when in the final trimming stages. Also initially the material will drink the sealer so the first coats will be alot heavier than the latter ones. Once you start you will clue onto the whole method rather fast. pretty much all you need is common sense and patients. 3-4days it could be finished
And in my experience i have felt and heard the before and after of this method. Its ftw
Yes that's right. Basically here is how it goes.
1. Tightbond coat
2. lay fabric on. monitor while it drys making sure no bubbles appear.
3. roughly trim around frets with a Stanley knife and nut etc. (note if some areas have missed the glue, just put a small amount in that area and press the material back down)
4. 2 more coats of sanding sealer. once dry sand with 400
5. Use a fresh Stanley blade and trim again this time along the fretboard.
6. more sealer coats until the weave in the material is filled. with sanding between coats.
7. Then just clean up around the fretboard with 600 and the knife if need be
8. Then use the clear/paint you desire to finish it.
Tips. use a fresh blade often especially when in the final trimming stages. Also initially the material will drink the sealer so the first coats will be alot heavier than the latter ones. Once you start you will clue onto the whole method rather fast. pretty much all you need is common sense and patients. 3-4days it could be finished
And in my experience i have felt and heard the before and after of this method. Its ftw
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kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
To add to my point, i had actually purchased a neck once that had been sanded down so far the truss rod was showing about 25cm exposed. To this day that neck stands strong and is actually one of my favorite players. It stays in tune and plays perfect.
You can see some of it here, and yeah bro that black is also fabric sealed on haha
To add to my point, i had actually purchased a neck once that had been sanded down so far the truss rod was showing about 25cm exposed. To this day that neck stands strong and is actually one of my favorite players. It stays in tune and plays perfect.
You can see some of it here, and yeah bro that black is also fabric sealed on haha
kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: Highly Improbable Project - Wish Me Luck!
Just think about it that's all im saying. Let me know if you want any more tips if you decide you want to try it before ditching the neck and starting again.
I gtg now i have been called into bed on a promise :fest6:
Just think about it that's all im saying. Let me know if you want any more tips if you decide you want to try it before ditching the neck and starting again.
I gtg now i have been called into bed on a promise :fest6: