Hiwatt vs Plexi

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

Yeah, sounds nuts.....

George Lynch used to pop in here every now & then & I understand he threatened to steal Warren's Plexi, it was so sweet

I know SD is working on a DiMartini pickup....maybe one of the powers that be can ask him to shed a little light on that :bigthumb:

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

I tried a couple of Hiwatts two weeks ago.

The handwired Dr103 100watt ri was pretty amazing. I would characterise it as a very powerful, widescreen British-sounding amp. More sparkle and low end than you'd get from a plexi, and a different midrange character, but still very much an el34 sound. It also took SERIOUS volume for the amp to break up. Dimed, it had fairly low gain levels. I can totally see why Gilmour likes these amps for feeding pedals into.

The other model I tried was called a 'high gain 50', which is a non-handwired, Brit made model that uses a PCB, and I'm told is not sold on the US market. I was surprised at how good this amp sounded. It had much of the shimmer and character of the DR103, but also had plenty of gain on tap. The tone was fat, and very playable, with a thick midrange that didn't have that crushed glass sound marshall preamp gain tends to have. One of the best amps I've tried recently, and I've tried everything I can get my hands on: Splawn, Matamp/Green, Top Hat, Orange...

Caveat: Fanes are a VITAL part of the Hiwatt sound. I plugged the high gain 50 into a cheaper, non-fane hiwatt cab and a v30 2x12, and the magic completely disappeared. I wouldn't even look twice at the hiwatts I tried without fanes. Though I'm guessing any speaker that is fairly clear through the midrange has a decent chance of sounding good with a Hiwatt.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

yup..... Fanes are where it's at Hiwatt wise....

Is there a JBL speaker that sounds close to Fanes? Townshend used JBL's in the top cabs of his stage rig in the 70's... the bottom where fanes... some say the top cabs were for show only and they were not on... others say they were on.... but in stage shots you only ever see mics placed on the bottom cabs

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

not even g12h30's?

i was convinced everything sounded better with them

or atleast their emi counterparts

 

[claytonc]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

yup..... Fanes are where it's at Hiwatt wise....

Is there a JBL speaker that sounds close to Fanes? Townshend used JBL's in the top cabs of his stage rig in the 70's... the bottom where fanes... some say the top cabs were for show only and they were not on... others say they were on.... but in stage shots you only ever see mics placed on the bottom cabs

The top cabs were indeed for show. Glynn Reeves, son of David Reeves told me that David was quite upset about Pete destroying his gear and made factory 2nd cabs or ones that failed QC available for the tops to be thrown around and trashed.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

not even g12h30's?

i was convinced everything sounded better with them

or atleast their emi counterparts

The Fanes usually associated with Hi-Watts were alnico instead of ceramic, so that's a major factor. Although the G12H30 is said to sound closer to the Celestion alnico than most ceramic Celstions, the Fane alnico's had a unique clean sound.

Some of the classic JBL 12's, such as used by the ABB, were also alnico.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

The top cabs were indeed for show. Glynn Reeves, son of David Reeves told me that David was quite upset about Pete destroying his gear and made factory 2nd cabs or ones that failed QC available for the tops to be thrown around and trashed.

thanks...

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

Is it a safe assumption that Sound City Amps are more like the Hiwatts than Marshall's. Sound City was a spin off company from Hiwatt, right?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

The Fanes usually associated with Hi-Watts were alnico instead of ceramic, so that's a major factor. Although the G12H30 is said to sound closer to the Celestion alnico than most ceramic Celstions, the Fane alnico's had a unique clean sound.
Some of the classic JBL 12's, such as used by the ABB, were also alnico.

Thge Fane speakers that came stock in HiWatt cabs were ceramic speakers not alnico...not by a long shot. They were cast frame, 50 watt, ceramic magnet speakers...I know because I have a matcheds set of them from 1971, mine wer epulled out of a completely trashed HiWatt cab. Also, FWIW, every other HiWatt cab I have eer seen with Fanes had the same ceramic speakers like the ones I have.

 

[flank]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

Is it a safe assumption that Sound City Amps are more like the Hiwatts than Marshall's. Sound City was a spin off company from Hiwatt, right?

I'd say that rings true for the most part. Some of the earliest Sound City amps basically are Hiwatts. I've only played 2 or 3 Sound City amps, but they do mostly have more of a Hiwatt vibe than any Marshall i've played. Some of the sound citys are more of a departure from the Hiwatt sound than others, but overall, they have that clean and transparent sound that a Hiwatt has, but one of them i played was a bit flat and cold sounding unless it was cranked up good. Most (if not all?) sound citys have the Partridge transformers, which is a vital component to the sound of a Hiwatt.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

Is it a safe assumption that Sound City Amps are more like the Hiwatts than Marshall's. Sound City was a spin off company from Hiwatt, right?

Not a safe assumption at all...Sound City was not a spin off of HiWatt, that is a rather long story...a story you can read about here...

http://home.earthlink.net/~iktoblikto/history.htm

As for the tone of a Sound City, a Mark III SC head is almost exactally the same as a DR103 HiWatt but those amps are getting harder and harder to find and are going up in price pretty quickly. The much more common Sound City amps (the Mark 4 series) had a few different models (50+, 50R, 120, 120R, Concord, Studio 20, etc) but they were pretty drastically different than the Mark III's...similar in some way but very different in others. The end result is that the OSund City MK III amps sound VERY MUCH like a HiWatt from the same time period while the MK 4 amps have their own thing going on.

Also, I have to say this just because...a lot of people will try and tell you that Sound City amps were junky, cheep made, garbage amps but that is 100% not true...they are hand wired true PTP, use killer transformers (partridge), high quality caps and resisters as well as goog filter caps, good pots, high quality switches and jacks...I mean to be hoenst what more could you ask for?!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

I'd say that rings true for the most part. Some of the earliest Sound City amps basically are Hiwatts. I've only played 2 or 3 Sound City amps, but they do mostly have more of a Hiwatt vibe than any Marshall i've played. Some of the sound citys are more of a departure from the Hiwatt sound than others, but overall, they have that clean and transparent sound that a Hiwatt has, but one of them i played was a bit flat and cold sounding unless it was cranked up good. Most (if not all?) sound citys have the Partridge transformers, which is a vital component to the sound of a Hiwatt.

I guess if you had to put a SC in a Hiwatt camp or in a Marshall camp it's a better fit in the HiWatt camp but the MK 4's are still very different.

 

[flank]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

I guess if you had to put a SC in a Hiwatt camp or in a Marshall camp it's a better fit in the HiWatt camp but the MK 4's are still very different.

Right, its hard to express it in words, as hearing the amps is a much better way (as with all guitar equipment). I have somewhat limited experience with Hiwatts and Sound city amps, but i owned a Dr103 and have played 3 types of Sound city amps. Overall, the Hiwatt sounded the best to me, and the sound citys sounded good, quite a bit like the Hiwatt, but did have their own thing goin on like you say. Still, to me, they are both similar in that they have a big open clean el34 tube tone. Granted, i played the Hiwatt through both a Fane loaded cab and a marshall cab at different times, and that changed the sound alot. The sound citys i played were through marshall cabs, and yet, i still think they had quite a bit of that classic hiwatt sound. I imagine it would be even more so if you play a Sound city into a Fane loaded. Either way, the Sound citys didnt have that midrange sizzle that i typically hear in a Marshall. I'm not too picky about this stuff, but I'm not a diehard Hiwatt guy either, so to me, a Sound City into a fane loaded cab would be close enough for me (and make my wallet happier too :smack: )

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

ok, so if the hiwatt sound is mainly in the fanes

then why not get a plexi & use fanes

best of both, right?

 

[flank]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

ok, so if the hiwatt sound is mainly in the fanes

then why not get a plexi & use fanes

best of both, right?

no, i wouldnt say the sound is mainly in the fanes, as much as the sound is enhanced by the Fanes. or moreso, the "classic" hiwatt sound is found by using Fane speakers. Still, a Hiwatt sounds much different than a marshall, even into a marshall cab like i used my Hiwatt at one point. I'm sure a plexi would probably sound cool with Fanes, but i dont know. I dont think it would particularly make it have any more of a hiwatt sound though.

 

[claytonc]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

Not a safe assumption at all...Sound City was not a spin off of HiWatt, that is a rather long story...a story you can read about here...

http://home.earthlink.net/~iktoblikto/history.htm

As for the tone of a Sound City, a Mark III SC head is almost exactally the same as a DR103 HiWatt but those amps are getting harder and harder to find and are going up in price pretty quickly. The much more common Sound City amps (the Mark 4 series) had a few different models (50+, 50R, 120, 120R, Concord, Studio 20, etc) but they were pretty drastically different than the Mark III's...similar in some way but very different in others. The end result is that the OSund City MK III amps sound VERY MUCH like a HiWatt from the same time period while the MK 4 amps have their own thing going on.

Also, I have to say this just because...a lot of people will try and tell you that Sound City amps were junky, cheep made, garbage amps but that is 100% not true...they are hand wired true PTP, use killer transformers (partridge), high quality caps and resisters as well as goog filter caps, good pots, high quality switches and jacks...I mean to be hoenst what more could you ask for?!

The info in this link regarding David Reeves has been proven wrong and should be updated. David Reeves was NEVER and Employee of Arbiter, Dallas Arbitor or Sound City. He was contracted by them to build a line of amps that was then badged "Sound City". I am surprised that this site has not been updated.

Right up through the mid 70's SC's were great amps with great components.

 

[claytonc]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

ok, so if the hiwatt sound is mainly in the fanes

then why not get a plexi & use fanes

best of both, right?

The sound is much more than just the Fanes, or Partridges. It is a combination of the Tone Stack, the highest quality components available, and the Fanes that were specifically voiced and made for HIWATTs..

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

The info in this link regarding David Reeves has been proven wrong and should be updated. David Reeves was NEVER and Employee of Arbiter, Dallas Arbitor or Sound City. He was contracted by them to build a line of amps that was then badged "Sound City". I am surprised that this site has not been updated.

Right up through the mid 70's SC's were great amps with great components.

I learn something new everyday!

I didn't know that dave didn't really work for SC, however I did know that up through the mid 70's SC's were great amps!

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

Thge Fane speakers that came stock in HiWatt cabs were ceramic speakers not alnico...not by a long shot. They were cast frame, 50 watt, ceramic magnet speakers...I know because I have a matcheds set of them from 1971, mine wer epulled out of a completely trashed HiWatt cab. Also, FWIW, every other HiWatt cab I have eer seen with Fanes had the same ceramic speakers like the ones I have.

Good to know. Thank's for setting me straight.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Hiwatt vs Plexi

for a short time in 1968 Pete Townshend and John Entwhistle were both using Sound City amps.... By late 68 they had the Hiwatts going..... I have never had the chace to try out a Sound City... i never see them around besides the odd one on Ebay