Hole in the Tonechart?

bagouser

bagouser

New member
Hello fellas.....
just was noticing.......
A2P and other PAF style Humbuckers range from 7k-8.5k usually.
Higher gain units like the Custom series range from 14K-17K.

Other than the Screamin Demon at 10K, where are the humbuckers that would range from 10K-14K? Is there some reason that theyre missing/not in production?

For example, what if I wanted a lower output Custom 5, like maybe 12K, or a lower output Distortion, like 14K, would this be possible?

I can't possibly be the only one that wants something around 12K? That's right where vintage pickups start being hot IMO.......
Something between the Brobucker and C5 would be sweet......but is it windable?
 
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Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

bagouser said:
what if I wanted a lower output Custom 5, like maybe 12K
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for this one ^ a DDn with an A5 mag would suit nicely

i do hear you though, i completely agree that the 8K-12K range could be developed; personally i'm curious as to whether or not there could be another pickup waiting to happen somewhere between the demon and the DDn.
this is something that some of the PAF zealots have posted about a few times as well.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

bagouser said:
Hello fellas.....
just was noticing.......
A2P and other PAF style Humbuckers range from 7k-8.5k usually.
Higher gain units like the Custom series range from 14K-17K.

Other than the Screamin Demon at 10K, where are the humbuckers that would range from 10K-14K? Is there some reason that theyre missing/not in production?

For example, what if I wanted a lower output Custom 5, like maybe 12K, or a lower output Distortion, like 14K, would this be possible?

I can't possibly be the only one that wants something around 12K? That's right where vintage pickups start being hot IMO.......
Something between the Brobucker and C5 would be sweet......but is it windable?
Click to expand...

Try the S-Deco
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

I kind of felt the same way - that's why the '59/Custom 5 hybrid was appealing to me. It reads around 11.3 or so.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

bagouser, remember that seymour duncan's custom shop can build any humbucker you like for you.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

The way the numbers work out has a little to do with optimum windings for different wire gauges (ie, 42 vs 43 or 44 gauge wire), filling up the bobbins, etc... but there's no technical reason that prevents winding 10k to 13k pickups.
This thread might shed a bit more light on the subject: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=22538
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

it's kind of interesting that someone can look at a whole line of pickups, and decide that the one they want is the one they don't see.

there are some other basic assumptions here that are wrong IMO, besides the arbitrary definition of "hot" that fits your idea of a "hole" in the pickup range.

as good of an objective measure as resistance is, it doesn't tell the whole story, and doesn't alone determine the output of a pickup. end output is a result of the coil size, wire gauge, and strength and type of magnets, among other things.

in other words, is a 14K humbucker wound with 43 ga wire really that much hotter than a 10K pickup wound with 42 ga???
Does a FilterTron, a humbucker that only has a resistance of about 5K sound "weak"?

worse yet is the whole notion that you are going to be happy with a pickup based on specs alone, without ever bringing up an example of the tone you are actually looking for. It's a rather backwards proposition.

Why not begin your search with a very specific idea of the tone you want, give examples, describe your gear, type of music, and the tone you have now as a point of reference.
This has worked very well for many, many others.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

Curly said:
it's kind of interesting that someone can look at a whole line of pickups, and decide that the one they want is the one they don't see.
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when did that happen..? closest thing to that in this thread is people expressing interest in a wind similar to a custom 5, but a little less hot

Curly said:
in other words, is a 14K humbucker wound with 43 ga wire really that much hotter than a 10K pickup wound with 42 ga???
Click to expand...
i thought the whole reason manufacturers use 43AWG and 44AWG wire is so they can fit more turns of wire on the bobbin, increasing the DC resistance and making the pickup hotter/better suited to high gain amps..?

Curly said:
Does a FilterTron, a humbucker that only has a resistance of about 5K sound "weak"?
Click to expand...
i believe it would, if it didn't have the added inductance of 12 massive screws in it. even TV Jones himself doesn't recommend splitting them, he says to use magnatrons or powertrons which are up around 8-9K.

Curly said:
worse yet is the whole notion that you are going to be happy with a pickup based on specs alone, without ever bringing up an example of the tone you are actually looking for. It's a rather backwards proposition.
Click to expand...
i really don't think that's what's happening here; bagouser has done just that before when selecting a demon and full shred neck for one of his guitars.

i'm not trying to make you look bad here, but your post really does read like you're attacking this guy for no good reason
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

[I'm not trying to make you look bad here, but your post really does read like you're attacking this guy for no good reason[/QUOTE]


I think you were . . . and I don't think he was.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

There are plenty of humbuckers out there in the 9k to 13k range (that's mostly what the SD line is missing isn't it?). Dimarzio has a few - mostly none vintage PAFs though. Bare Knuckle have their Black Dog and VHII models...

I think that such a pickup would be a great addition to the SD line. Yes, just because there seems to be a demand for them.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

JohnnyGuitar said:
I think that such a pickup would be a great addition to the SD line. Yes, just because there seems to be a demand for them.
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure if there's a REAL DEMAND for those p'ups or just people complaining there aren't... big difference.

I think that'll be more of the second kind rarher than the fIrst, if you ask me.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

I tink, that if you go that 9k-13k route, you have to use less winds on the bobbins with 44 or 43 awg, which will result in perhaps a weaker sound. you just can't fit on more of the 42 on a bobbin, than that 7k range. if you want something in that inbetween, make a hybrid, I suppose. duncan can't make those, cause Dimarzio has got those patents. and he also has got the patent for removing or increasing the height of the wood spacers in the pickups, s duncan can't make those either ( a bit off topic, I know :P )
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

LtKojak said:
I'm not quite sure if there's a REAL DEMAND for those p'ups or just people complaining there aren't... big difference.

I think that'll be more of the second kind rarher than the fIrst, if you ask me.
Click to expand...


I know what you mean and keep in mind that I am not the target market for such a pickup but in this case I actually think it is real demand.

There was a reason why the Brobucker is the most successful forum pickup and you see more threads about the S-Deco and 78 than any other pickup the Custom Shop offers.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

This has been discussed at length in numerous threads a few years ago which brought about the Brobucker.

10k of 42AWG can fit on the bobbins, that is what the Brobucker has with a Dunaged Alnico V magnet. 11k work can be squeezed on there but it'll be really full. At that point, 43AWG has to be used and if you want to stick with "vintage", throw that right out the window when you get over the 10k mark.

Search "10k" and "Brobucker" and you'll find a ton of information on this subject.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

As usual on here, you guys miss the point.

I recently tried to order thru the custom Shop and in the UK it's impossible.
I've posted about this already...

There is a gap in the product line and forcing someone to go thru the Custom Shop is going to lose sales, as it did mine.

I'd suggest looking at other manufacturers, Suhr have a few in the range you're looking for and they're great pickups and great value for money.

Maybe if enough sales are lost, Duncan may bow to pressure and introduce the Bro and 78 into the regular product line.
 
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?

wolf5150 said:
As usual on here, you guys miss the point.

I recently tried to order thru the custom Shop and in the UK it's impossible.
I've posted about this already...

There is a gap in the product line and forcing someone to go thru the Custom Shop is going to lose sales, as it did mine.

I'd suggest looking at other manufacturers, Suhr have a few in the range you're looking for and they're great pickups and great value for money.

Maybe if enough sales are lost, Duncan may bow to pressure and introduce the Bro and 78 into the regular product line.
Click to expand...

I think Evan and the guys are far more aware of their sales situation than we are. If the market was there, they would make it.

I think the issue really is more of misconception. If one assumes that 12k would be the middle ground between 8 and 16 in terms of output that could easily be seen as a "whole" in the product line. That's not really the case in terms of the practical output of the pickups in the line. But then that's really a discussion of output, not tone.

The real issue is simply tone. Amps today generate all of the gain you could ever want. Pickup output is really a meaningless statistic. I use a CC/A2P in one guitar to tame brightness. I use a pair of Seths in another for their smooth top end. I use a Bro/PG set in another for more bite. They all get plugged into the same effects/amps/speakers.
 
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