Hole in the Tonechart?
- Thread starter bagouser
- Start date
W
wolf5150
Guest
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
I think Evan and the guys are more " savvy " that's all.... keep demand high but availability low.
I'd love to try a Brobucker but i was unable to get any service from the Custom Shop ( can you tell I'm a bit annoyed ?? .. :1: ) and I'd love to know why the 2 most popular custom shop pickups are not part of the standard line ???
Personally I hated the 78 but i ackowledge lots seem to like it, I'm not prepared to pay Custom Shop prices to make the same mistake with the Bro Bucker
I'd have thought the idea of a Custom Shop was to either make something very difficult or unusual and therefore , not profitable, or to test an idea prior to it's release.
That's how most other companies work, so why not Duncan ?
It's a simple question, I'd love to get a direct answer form the " guys " ?
I think Evan and the guys are more " savvy " that's all.... keep demand high but availability low.
I'd love to try a Brobucker but i was unable to get any service from the Custom Shop ( can you tell I'm a bit annoyed ?? .. :1: ) and I'd love to know why the 2 most popular custom shop pickups are not part of the standard line ???
Personally I hated the 78 but i ackowledge lots seem to like it, I'm not prepared to pay Custom Shop prices to make the same mistake with the Bro Bucker
I'd have thought the idea of a Custom Shop was to either make something very difficult or unusual and therefore , not profitable, or to test an idea prior to it's release.
That's how most other companies work, so why not Duncan ?
It's a simple question, I'd love to get a direct answer form the " guys " ?
CTN
The Drama Dude
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
A Custom shop is meant for taking ideas from people and bringing them to life in the form of unique products.
In this case, Seymour Duncan does that but also has a bunch of models that are quirky and unique but wouldn't be profitable as a production model since they're primarily for limited niche markets.
testing ideas prior to release of a new product is the job of the Research & Product Development branch of SD, not necessarily the Custom Shop.
A Custom shop is meant for taking ideas from people and bringing them to life in the form of unique products.
In this case, Seymour Duncan does that but also has a bunch of models that are quirky and unique but wouldn't be profitable as a production model since they're primarily for limited niche markets.
testing ideas prior to release of a new product is the job of the Research & Product Development branch of SD, not necessarily the Custom Shop.
W
wolf5150
Guest
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
You just proved my point then.. thank you.
The Brobucker was designed to be the perfect hot PAF by all us forum guys.. hardly a niche market !
It was designed to fill a hole that the forum believed existed !
Surley after the sales it generated, it validated it's place in the standard product line ?
You just proved my point then.. thank you.
The Brobucker was designed to be the perfect hot PAF by all us forum guys.. hardly a niche market !
It was designed to fill a hole that the forum believed existed !
Surley after the sales it generated, it validated it's place in the standard product line ?
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
Not really. This forum is a niche market because we are a small percentage of the actual buying public. There are hundreds of thousands of guitar players out there outside of this forum.
Just because it did well here doesn't mean it will do well with the masses. They did add it to the Custom Shop line of offerings and if there is enough demand for it, then it could possibly become part of the standard line. Until then, it won't happen.
You have to remember, a small percentage of players actually change their pickups.
Not really. This forum is a niche market because we are a small percentage of the actual buying public. There are hundreds of thousands of guitar players out there outside of this forum.
Just because it did well here doesn't mean it will do well with the masses. They did add it to the Custom Shop line of offerings and if there is enough demand for it, then it could possibly become part of the standard line. Until then, it won't happen.
You have to remember, a small percentage of players actually change their pickups.
W
wolf5150
Guest
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
I'm not going to keep posting my frustrations with the Custom Shop.
I live in the UK and we have NO service and unless that changes, demand won't increase.
I got the service I wanted from another company and i'm very happy with the results.
Sorry if I highjacked the thread.
There are pickups that you are looking for, you just have to shop around.
I'm not going to keep posting my frustrations with the Custom Shop.
I live in the UK and we have NO service and unless that changes, demand won't increase.
I got the service I wanted from another company and i'm very happy with the results.
Sorry if I highjacked the thread.
There are pickups that you are looking for, you just have to shop around.
Last edited:
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
I think the hole that's in the Tone Chart or in the Duncan line is in the "paf" type pickup line.
Much as I love the PG's, Seth Lovers and Antiquitys I'd really like to see a Duncan set that competes with those now $800 a set Tom Holmes humbuckers.
The Holmes humbuckers have a paf voice and they're alnico 2. They seem a little higher in output than the PG, Seth or Ant pickups and push my amp a little harder. When I plug my guitar into any of my tweed or blackface Fenders, the Holmes pickups make getting a British Blues "Les Paul through a Marshall" tone easier than with any other humbucker I've owned with one exception: the Duncan 78.
So I'd love to see a standard Duncan set that will sell for under $250 a set, like the Antiquity, that gets the thicker, hotter, lively, bright but smooth tones of the the Tom Holmes paf style pickups and also the Duncan 78 offered as a stock pickup.
SD Pickups would sell a million of them, IMO.
To me the 78 is most like a real strong alnico 2 50's paf anyway. I love it but I don't play much like EVH.
I think the hole that's in the Tone Chart or in the Duncan line is in the "paf" type pickup line.
Much as I love the PG's, Seth Lovers and Antiquitys I'd really like to see a Duncan set that competes with those now $800 a set Tom Holmes humbuckers.
The Holmes humbuckers have a paf voice and they're alnico 2. They seem a little higher in output than the PG, Seth or Ant pickups and push my amp a little harder. When I plug my guitar into any of my tweed or blackface Fenders, the Holmes pickups make getting a British Blues "Les Paul through a Marshall" tone easier than with any other humbucker I've owned with one exception: the Duncan 78.
So I'd love to see a standard Duncan set that will sell for under $250 a set, like the Antiquity, that gets the thicker, hotter, lively, bright but smooth tones of the the Tom Holmes paf style pickups and also the Duncan 78 offered as a stock pickup.
SD Pickups would sell a million of them, IMO.
To me the 78 is most like a real strong alnico 2 50's paf anyway. I love it but I don't play much like EVH.
Last edited:
W
wolf5150
Guest
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
I need to lie down, I think Lew and I just agreed on something :friday:
I need to lie down, I think Lew and I just agreed on something :friday:
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
A few hundred people on a forum is not even a niche market. Lets get real.
A few hundred people on a forum is not even a niche market. Lets get real.
J Moose
New member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
Couple weeks ago I had a long conversation with Frank Falbo about pickups & magnets...
First of all, I think most people are aware... or at least should be aware that DC resistance has little to no relation to the actual output level or tone of a pickup.
All the DC tells us is how much wire is wrapped on there. That's it.
And its pretty meaningless from one make to another... sometimes even among the same brands if you're comparing different types of pickups.
For example, we could take a Joe Barden tele bridge pickup & I think that's around 5k... but its WAY hotter then any sort of Broadcaster or 'vintage' Tele pickup. When it hits the amp, its actually more like a PAF output level.
The rest of the equation comes down to magnet type, strength... thickness of wire and how its wrapped on there. Is it a straight wind or a scatter wind where the layers aren't wrapped evenly? That'll effect the EQ of the pickup... especially the top end bite & midrange.
The point here, is that with all the variables... if we unwound, say a Custom 5 but left everything else alone... you could actually end up with something that has less output then a '59 even though the DC would still be higher.
So where does that leave us?
FWIW - Frank also told me that the closest thing to the '78 in the "stock" line is the Pearly Gates. I often see comparisons between the '78 & the Custom Custom which has a much higher DC... so again, what does that say?
If you can't get it out of the regular line, there's always a floor shop custom... or the actual custom shop... and there's a lot of other pickup companies too.
Couple weeks ago I had a long conversation with Frank Falbo about pickups & magnets...
First of all, I think most people are aware... or at least should be aware that DC resistance has little to no relation to the actual output level or tone of a pickup.
All the DC tells us is how much wire is wrapped on there. That's it.
And its pretty meaningless from one make to another... sometimes even among the same brands if you're comparing different types of pickups.
For example, we could take a Joe Barden tele bridge pickup & I think that's around 5k... but its WAY hotter then any sort of Broadcaster or 'vintage' Tele pickup. When it hits the amp, its actually more like a PAF output level.
The rest of the equation comes down to magnet type, strength... thickness of wire and how its wrapped on there. Is it a straight wind or a scatter wind where the layers aren't wrapped evenly? That'll effect the EQ of the pickup... especially the top end bite & midrange.
The point here, is that with all the variables... if we unwound, say a Custom 5 but left everything else alone... you could actually end up with something that has less output then a '59 even though the DC would still be higher.
So where does that leave us?
FWIW - Frank also told me that the closest thing to the '78 in the "stock" line is the Pearly Gates. I often see comparisons between the '78 & the Custom Custom which has a much higher DC... so again, what does that say?
If you can't get it out of the regular line, there's always a floor shop custom... or the actual custom shop... and there's a lot of other pickup companies too.
JohnnyGuitar
New member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
The whole guitar pickups market is a niche (not counting the OEM).
If SD needs to produce a few more pickups every year, as far as humbuckers go - a standard production pickup at this range is a very good direction. Think of a warmer yet louder A5 PAF at 9.5K or a brighter and tighter Custom Custom at 12K for example...
Don't know why I'm posting on this thread so much... I'm GASing for a Tele and more into noiseless strats/teles anyway. If I'll ever go for humbucker tones I'll look for a bright one with attitude - Pearly Gates or some ceramic screamer for example... so as far as 'buckers go - I'm set.
The whole guitar pickups market is a niche (not counting the OEM).
If SD needs to produce a few more pickups every year, as far as humbuckers go - a standard production pickup at this range is a very good direction. Think of a warmer yet louder A5 PAF at 9.5K or a brighter and tighter Custom Custom at 12K for example...
Don't know why I'm posting on this thread so much... I'm GASing for a Tele and more into noiseless strats/teles anyway. If I'll ever go for humbucker tones I'll look for a bright one with attitude - Pearly Gates or some ceramic screamer for example... so as far as 'buckers go - I'm set.
Last edited:
bagouser
New member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
These responses have ranged from suprising to informative.
I kind of like what GoDrex posted about the '59/Custom 5 hybrid.
I was more curious about some of the winding specs that a few of you guys were so kind to point out.
At one point, I had considered an overwound Brobucker to try to get around 11-11.5K, but I heard that it was almost impossible to "fit" all the wire in there.
I just have a few guitars and decided to put all different types of SDs in them so that each would give me a different sound. After trying a Demon recently, I immediatley began to wonder what a humbucker that is between the Demon and Custom 5 would sound like. Every player has a sweet spot in their own ears to exactly what they want their guitar tone to sound like, and I think if there were a really hot PAF that wasnt quite as hot as the 14.4K of the C5, that might be several of our sweet spots.......
These responses have ranged from suprising to informative.
I kind of like what GoDrex posted about the '59/Custom 5 hybrid.
I was more curious about some of the winding specs that a few of you guys were so kind to point out.
At one point, I had considered an overwound Brobucker to try to get around 11-11.5K, but I heard that it was almost impossible to "fit" all the wire in there.
I just have a few guitars and decided to put all different types of SDs in them so that each would give me a different sound. After trying a Demon recently, I immediatley began to wonder what a humbucker that is between the Demon and Custom 5 would sound like. Every player has a sweet spot in their own ears to exactly what they want their guitar tone to sound like, and I think if there were a really hot PAF that wasnt quite as hot as the 14.4K of the C5, that might be several of our sweet spots.......
W
wolf5150
Guest
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
There is.. I have 2 faves
WCR Darkburst and Godwood.
Expensive but fantastic.
There is.. I have 2 faves
WCR Darkburst and Godwood.
Expensive but fantastic.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
The kicker though is this. A PAF, by definition, is wound with 42AWG wire. Once you get above that 10k mark, then you have to go to a thinner wire, such as 43AWG. No longer is it in the PAF category. It's possible to get the pickup to have a PAF like sound to it though, but that is as close as you're going to get.
The kicker though is this. A PAF, by definition, is wound with 42AWG wire. Once you get above that 10k mark, then you have to go to a thinner wire, such as 43AWG. No longer is it in the PAF category. It's possible to get the pickup to have a PAF like sound to it though, but that is as close as you're going to get.
bagouser
New member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
So basically, it's hard to wind a PAF humbucker higher than 10K due to wire gauge problems. Thank you ErikH.
My current fave, the Custom 5, still has sort of a vintag-ey sound to it, so I guess I shouuld just contact the Custom Shop about a Demon/C5 hybrid and see what they say.
thanks for all those who lended info.
Thanks to Dr. Ad as well for the stick up.........got your back too man.
So basically, it's hard to wind a PAF humbucker higher than 10K due to wire gauge problems. Thank you ErikH.
My current fave, the Custom 5, still has sort of a vintag-ey sound to it, so I guess I shouuld just contact the Custom Shop about a Demon/C5 hybrid and see what they say.
thanks for all those who lended info.
Thanks to Dr. Ad as well for the stick up.........got your back too man.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
It's not really a problem. Just a simple fact of running out of room on the bobbin to fit more wire. The Custom 5 has the sound and feel as does the Custom, but with more mids and push. The Custom is touted as a PAF on steroids for a reason, even though it is not a PAF. It just has the sound, only bigger.
It's not really a problem. Just a simple fact of running out of room on the bobbin to fit more wire. The Custom 5 has the sound and feel as does the Custom, but with more mids and push. The Custom is touted as a PAF on steroids for a reason, even though it is not a PAF. It just has the sound, only bigger.
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
I have recommended the PG for years to guys wanting the VH sound. I think the Plexi is far more important than the pickup personally
The 78/CC comparison is very likely the VH connection. I don't think they sound much alike.
I have recommended the PG for years to guys wanting the VH sound. I think the Plexi is far more important than the pickup personally
The 78/CC comparison is very likely the VH connection. I don't think they sound much alike.
RLee
New member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
Yes!
I've never quite understood why the term "hotter" is used to describe pickups, and why people state, "I need a hotter pickup". It's all about tone: the mix of highs vs. lows vs. mids, and other nuances of tone. I think what people mean when they say "hotter" is really "I need more mids". It seems that DC resistance has become the measure for many unrelated things, simply because it's easy to compare with other pickups, unlike tone.
Yes!
I've never quite understood why the term "hotter" is used to describe pickups, and why people state, "I need a hotter pickup". It's all about tone: the mix of highs vs. lows vs. mids, and other nuances of tone. I think what people mean when they say "hotter" is really "I need more mids". It seems that DC resistance has become the measure for many unrelated things, simply because it's easy to compare with other pickups, unlike tone.
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: Hole in the Tonechart?
To be fair, back in the 70's a Super Distortion could drive a the 1 channel/Non-Master Volume amps inputs harder to get more gain that the PAF style pickups that were common. So be it, but relatively few are using those style of amps(Admittedly, I do) and typically have at least one overdrive pedal in the chain.
To be fair, back in the 70's a Super Distortion could drive a the 1 channel/Non-Master Volume amps inputs harder to get more gain that the PAF style pickups that were common. So be it, but relatively few are using those style of amps(Admittedly, I do) and typically have at least one overdrive pedal in the chain.