how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

[inthestix]

I can pick up a squier telecaster pretty cheap from the local shop (alder body, maple neck), and I'm thinking about turning it into a light weight doom metal / grindcore axe. I've got a '79 Kramer DMZ that I've used forever, but my po' back just can't handle the weight of the aluminum-necked monster anymore.

The Tele guitar has a humbucker in the bridge, and a Strat-sized single coil in the neck. I want a deep, bassy, but not total mud humbucker (I love the Tom Anderson in the DMZ, but I don't want to remove it), and something that will have good high end for the neck. Thinking about a Duncan Invader or a DiMarzio Super 3 for bridge - anyone have an opinion or experience with these pickups?

Also, when you use a high output humbucker bridge pickup, can it be paired with a high output bridge pickup placed in the the neck position - like a Hot Rails bridge? What's the difference between the bridge and neck pickups as far as tone and placement? (I'm a total noob when it comes to custom pick up work, and I don't know how the different output values are properly matched, or if it would offer any benefit to use the higher output pickup in the neck.)

I play through a BBE guitar pre-amp, a 25 band/ side stereo EQ, one of a few fuzzboxes or distortion in the FX loop (Death Metal, Graphic Fuzz, Zombie, Rat), and a solid state power amp thru a 4x12 Laney cab with Celestions. I'm also going to get an Orange Tiny Terror with a 1x12 Celestion for lower volume / easier portability / tube metal tone.

Would this get me the kind of sound I'm looking for (grinding metal, Entombed, Electric Wizard, and grindy stuff like Pig Destroyer, Magrudergrind or Sh!tstorm) in a light weight guitar?

Any help, edumacation, or suggestions greatly appreciated!

 

[Moonsorrow]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

Any good quality high output humbucker would do really. I like some of the same bands/music as you listed.....how about Gadget,Leng Tche,and Misery Index?

 

[Iron Horse]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

Alternative 8 might be pretty darn good in bridge. It has tight bass and warm highs.
And the neck pup spot has naturally more vibration to pick up, so it will sound louder than bridge pickup. This is compensated by winding hotter bridge pups and using stronger magnets in the bridge pickups (Alnico 8, ceramic, Alnico 5, 8 being the stronest and 5 being the weakest of these) compared to neck pup magnets (Alnico 5, Alnico 2 mostly, though ceramics (for bright and strong tones, metal/soloing) and Alnico 4 are used, too.). Most people that use a hotter than vintage style bridge pickup, use a vintage neck pickup for sweeter and cleaner tones, for cleans, chords, rhythm, and some soloing.
So, the main questions regarding the neck pickup issue is do you want to use it for cleans and what kind of difference in output level compared to the bridge pup do you want ?

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

The Invader or Distortion are where I would start for Duncan, or the DiMarzio Air Zone, Tone Zone, X2N, or Super Distortion.

 

[inthestix]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

I like some of the same bands/music as you listed.....how about Gadget,Leng Tche,and Misery Index?

Definite YES on Misery Index (and A$$uck, which is where they got their name, I believe). Have to do some myspacing on the others!

So, the main questions regarding the neck pickup issue is do you want to use it for cleans and what kind of difference in output level compared to the bridge pup do you want?

No cleans with this guitar. Just distortion sound A in one channel, distortion B in other channel, or off. Usually one w/ the 'scooped-mid' sound that folks seem to dislike here, and the other with kind of 'chainsaw' mids.

I'd like about the same output level between the two pickups.

I'm looking to compensate for the darker tone of an Invader or Super 3. I'm not opposed to the idea of a of a JB Jr. or Little '59 so I could use it for some clean or bluesy overdrive, but I generally use a Fernandes w/ p-90's for that. Would a bridge model of either of those overpower an Invader in the bridge?

The Invader or Distortion are where I would start for Duncan, or the DiMarzio Air Zone, Tone Zone, X2N, or Super Distortion.

Not a fan of the Super 3? I am leaning more towards an Invader. The Esquire Telecasters that had one of those in the bridge were pretty cool, but getting hard to find now. Light weight, simple, gobs of output, great w/ overdrive, fuzz, and distortion.

 

[Iron Horse]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

The Alternative 8 would be great too. It has tight bass and warm highs that would be great for soloing. Not that the highs would be loose, tho. (loose highs WTH ?)

 

[inthestix]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

OK, so I'll go with an Invader or try an Alt. 8 for the bridge humbucker. Thanks for all the suggestions!

I still need some suggestions for the single-coil Strat-sized pickup in the neck position... And if I should go with a neck or bridge model/output pickup.

If it helps, when the pickups are installed, I am going to have stacked or concentric pots installed, so I can control volume and tone for each pickup, so the neck pickup can have the volume rolled off if it would be too powerful or bright.

 

[elelpe]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

I'd go with Duncan Distortion in the bridge and li'l Sceamin Demon (bridge model) in the neck.

 

[ponch]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

I would suggest the cheaper duncan designed detonator, with a cool rail, or an X2N with a fast track. Those pups sound really awssome, but if you want to, you could do with a set of EMGs, SA and an 85' with a booster switch.l

 

[chimpanjesus]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

sounds like were looking for the same tone. i think im going for a duncan distortion in the neck with a invader in the bridge.

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

I'm not sure but to me those two genres don't really meet when it comes to pickups. Doom likes a dark and thick pickup while grindcore relies on tightness and clarity. Kind of like DiMarzio Tone Zone vs. EMG 81.

 

[NoOnesFang13]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

too lazy to read but how about a p-90?

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

I'm not sure but to me those two genres don't really meet when it comes to pickups. Doom likes a dark and thick pickup while grindcore relies on tightness and clarity. Kind of like DiMarzio Tone Zone vs. EMG 81.

Very important point.
If one wanted to play both those style, it's best to have 2 different guitars, one for doom, the other for grind.
If you try to have one guitar for both, you'll end up with too much of a tonal compromise for each style.

 

[jimijames]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

If I were you, I'd get a hot rails set for tele and call it a day. Maybe a screamin demon neck with a hot rails bridge if you like the look of a neck humbucker in a tele. I had a hot rails in my strat, and I can't imagine needing more output unless you're into noise making as ambient music and you like uncontrollable feedback...

FWIW, i just picked up a mxr doubleshot distortion, you can get them on ebay for pretty cheap (usually less than 65 bucks), and if you put the focus switches on, the top channel is perfect for thrash, the bottom is perfect for thick doom-y textures, and this is with an 11k Alnico 2 hybrid pickup I have in my strat - not exactly the most metal guitar ever... But it seems like you have plenty of distortion boxes, so I'll stick with what I said - Screamin demon in the neck and hot rails in the bridge.

 

[alex1fly]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

Very important point.
If one wanted to play both those style, it's best to have 2 different guitars, one for doom, the other for grind.
If you try to have one guitar for both, you'll end up with too much of a tonal compromise for each style.

Couldn't two amp channels, or multiple dirt boxes, make up for this? Get pickups good for distortion, and then use different gain structures and EQ to get your tone? Seems like a distorted neck pickup could swing the "thick and dark" bit in a pinch too. Don't need to cause unnecessary GAS for the OP...

 

[hanumanlangur]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

I can pick up a squier telecaster pretty cheap from the local shop (alder body, maple neck), and I'm thinking about turning it into a light weight doom metal / grindcore axe. I've got a '79 Kramer DMZ that I've used forever, but my po' back just can't handle the weight of the aluminum-necked monster anymore.

The Tele guitar has a humbucker in the bridge, and a Strat-sized single coil in the neck. I want a deep, bassy, but not total mud humbucker (I love the Tom Anderson in the DMZ, but I don't want to remove it), and something that will have good high end for the neck. Thinking about a Duncan Invader or a DiMarzio Super 3 for bridge - anyone have an opinion or experience with these pickups?

Also, when you use a high output humbucker bridge pickup, can it be paired with a high output bridge pickup placed in the the neck position - like a Hot Rails bridge? What's the difference between the bridge and neck pickups as far as tone and placement? (I'm a total noob when it comes to custom pick up work, and I don't know how the different output values are properly matched, or if it would offer any benefit to use the higher output pickup in the neck.)

I play through a BBE guitar pre-amp, a 25 band/ side stereo EQ, one of a few fuzzboxes or distortion in the FX loop (Death Metal, Graphic Fuzz, Zombie, Rat), and a solid state power amp thru a 4x12 Laney cab with Celestions. I'm also going to get an Orange Tiny Terror with a 1x12 Celestion for lower volume / easier portability / tube metal tone.

Would this get me the kind of sound I'm looking for (grinding metal, Entombed, Electric Wizard, and grindy stuff like Pig Destroyer, Magrudergrind or Sh!tstorm) in a light weight guitar?

Any help, edumacation, or suggestions greatly appreciated!

I'm sure with those distortion pedals, you can get all the gain you need for Grindcore and Doom. To be perfectly honest, I think most any decent humbucker would do for those genres. It's more about the distortion than anything, and they both tend to be pretty dirty styles.

I'd probably just go with something simple like a '59 in the bridge and a Cool Rails in the neck. You can build just about any tone you'd like on top of a setup like that as long as you have the right pedals (and it sounds like you do, Rats and Zombies definitely have tons of gain on tap). Just my two cents, though.

 

[inthestix]

Re: how and what pups for doom / grindcore guitar?

Whoa, thread from the dead!

I'm not sure but to me those two genres don't really meet when it comes to pickups. Doom likes a dark and thick pickup while grindcore relies on tightness and clarity. Kind of like DiMarzio Tone Zone vs. EMG 81.

I agree with that. It was something I always ran into problems with because my old band mixed the two styles. I always felt Thug's best recordings (my old band - if you google 'thug greenmachine' you can find our old split 7" as MP3 on 'renrats metal blog') still lacked the tightness and clarity that some of my favorite death metal or grind bands get.

In a roundabout way, I went with the suggestion from 'ponch' (owe you a beer, dude!). I found a used Squier Strat - the 'Tom Delonge' with just a Duncan Designed Detonator bridge and a volume knob, for a hair over $100. I totally love it. I just need to replace the nut so I can put a .60 or .65 string on it.

But even stock, it works for thundering doom, sizzling grind, garagey rock-punk and even that Fu Manchu / Kyuss / 'desert' or 'stoner' rock sound with one of my old muffs or Graphic Fuzz. I've never had a guitar so simple.

I'd probably just go with something simple like a '59 in the bridge and a Cool Rails in the neck. You can build just about any tone you'd like on top of a setup like that as long as you have the right pedals (and it sounds like you do, Rats and Zombies definitely have tons of gain on tap). Just my two cents, though.

Yep, I've found that the simple solution is probably better than what I was planning - tho I'll still make the tele into a Frankenstein someday.

I've always found my old Rat to be more of a 'super Tube Screamer' than a 'ton of gain on tap' pedal tho. But I'm comparing it to old fuzzboxes, my Metal Zone, Death Metal, and the godly antique Graphic Fuzz. I see they're making them again, I might have to get a new one so I can let ole' reliable have a rest.

sounds like were looking for the same tone. i think im going for a duncan distortion in the neck with a invader in the bridge.

I'll bet you the beer I owe ponch that this will work. :friday:

A local metalhead has a BC Rich with a Duncan Distortion in the neck and a Dimebucker in the bridge, and that was pretty sick too.