How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Rich_S said:
What about the Behringer pedals in general? Reasonably durable, or stomp-it-once-and-it's-trashed junk?
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I think the physical durability issue is overstated. I've certainly seen much worse.

QC is not great, but a lot of people like them. For the most part, they are SMT conversions of old unpatented circuits with a change or two. Their TO800 Tubescreamer clone is supposed to be very accurate, right down to the Panasonic distortion diodes.

I'm not a stompbox kind of guy, but I recently got a BDI21 on broad recommendation from bassists who otherwise despise Behringer. It's similar to a SansAmp. I did have to do a small internal repair to a stripped screw on the activator button flange, but other than that it's a great device and a great value. It's the only analog effect I own that consistently sounds better in the signal path than it does in the junk drawer. :)

People are put off by Behringer's stomps' low price, but the plain truth is that most other analog stomps are just insanely overpriced for what they are.
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Behringer pedals & mixers are usually clones of more expensive pedals & mixers which are just an inch away from copyright infringement. That's why they have so many... they just copy different designs of the same effect most of the time. So if they say it's close... it should be... I'd give it a try... for that price, you can't do much wrong.

I'm also with Bezmotivnik on this topic... many pedals are simply way overpriced given the cost of the components used.
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

How about buying a Behringer and a true bypass loop pedal for 30$ or so? If the Behringer box is so fragile that merely stomping on it is a high-risk game... If it breaks down on you even then, you have at least tried, and you'll be stuck with a TB loop pedal you probably could find some use for. ;)
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Fry mypass sloop....
Get a Maxon PAC-9(it can do that spatial thing too)....the DC-2(yeah I know y'all think it is the holiest chorus grail evar...but I think it is even more sad than the TC Chors/Flanger...uhu)is a SIMPLE spatial thing.......and it is not much like its big brother...the Dimension D( and I still do not care what anyone says about that......there is a huge difference!)
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Rid said:
Fry mypass sloop....
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I am not referring to the true bypass ability this time, Niels. ;) But if the Behringer stuff breaks by simply stomping on them, using a TB pedal to stomp on instead could actually make the Behringer stuff last a bit.
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Are we actually talking about this one?

http://webshop.musikboerse-effektiv....on-c-dc-2.html


Because this one is about 120€... and it's in swiss, next to us Austrians here, so if everything goes wrong, I could fetch it for ya, if that's an option.
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Hehe the very one....do they have any Dimension Ds too??:D
I rather get that one...hehe
I am not referring to the true bypass ability this time, Niels. But if the Behringer stuff breaks by simply stomping on them, using a TB pedal to stomp on instead could actually make the Behringer stuff last a bit.
Today 01:06 AM
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Nah Behringer is just too cheap.....and to think that they actually started as a highend company...their limiters and comps where expensive as hell!
And good too.
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Kommerzbassist said:
Behringer pedals & mixers are usually clones of more expensive pedals & mixers which are just an inch away from copyright infringement.
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This part is an unfortunate, if persistent, myth.

Behringer has never lost a patent case because none of their circuits they "stole" are under patent in the first place. The only cases they saw fit to even settle (under undisclosed terms) were about "trade dress" and similar nebulous issues, none of which were of sufficient legal clarity for either party to feel confident enough to take to trial.

I certainly have never understood how so many musicians got so emotionally invested in a couple of mere sand-kicking contests between big corporations.

When I get time, I'm going to do an article for publication on this subject.

Virtually nothing in analog stomps are patentable as they are all based on previous designs. They all are "rip-offs" of some previous work and lots of them are closer to previous work than Behringer's stuff is.

If something is not patented, it belongs to everyone. That's not a loophole, that's how patent is supposed to work. Useful unpatented (or out-of-patent) products are supposed to be made by more competitors so that prices go down and more people can have access to it.

That's how come you can get ibuprofen for a penny a pill at the dollar store instead of a buck or two a pill when it was under patent for twenty years.

This is a good thing, not a bad one.

Anyway, people who bash Behringer need to be consistent. Do they have...oh...non-Fender Strats, maybe? :wink:
 
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Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Bezmotivnik said:
This part is an unfortunate, if persistent, myth.

Behringer has never lost a patent case because none of their circuits they "stole" are under patent in the first place. The only cases they saw fit to even settle (under undisclosed terms) were about "trade dress" and similar nebulous issues, none of which were legally clear enough for either party to feel confident enough to take to trial.

I certainly have never understood how so many musicians got so emotionally invested in a couple of mere sand-kicking contests between big corporations.

When I get time, I'm going to do an article for publication on this subject.

Virtually nothing in analog stomps are patentable as they are all based on previous designs. They all are "rip-offs" of some previous work and lots of them are closer to previous work than Behringer's stuff is.

If something is not patented, it belongs to everyone. That's not a loophole, that's how patent is supposed to work. Useful unpatented (or out-of-patent) products are supposed to be made by more competitors so that prices go down and more people can have access to it.

That's how come you can get ibuprofen for a penny a pill at the dollar store instead of a buck or two a pill when it was under patent for twenty years.

This is a good thing, not a bad one.

Anyway, people who bash Behringer need to be consistent. Do they have...oh...non-Fender Strats, maybe? :wink:
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Oh anyways, all I wanted to say is that their products are just mass produced copies of other companies' stuff, so the pedal could be close to what he wants. Chill. :friday:
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Kommerzbassist said:
Oh anyways, all I wanted to say is that their products are just mass produced copies of other companies' stuff, so the pedal could be close to what he wants. Chill. :friday:
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Well, they're actually more typically somewhat simplified SMT conversion/adaptations of earlier through-board circuits...not straight copies, as most people think. Behringer would like you to believe their copies were more exact than they really are. :)

What's really interesting is that some of the semi-boutique effects they "stole" later went to cheaper SMT build and kept their inflated prices.

Now, there's your rip-off.
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Ooh, cool. I kicked up and patent-and-trademark legal argument. Let's talk about double-cream bobbins now.:lmao:

Anyway, further research has indicated that while the Behringer apes the DC-2 sound pretty well, it seems to suffer from a lack of headroom. Sounds to me like Behringer cheaped out on the op amps.

It might be worth trying if I could find one, but the only dealers on eBay are overseas - for some reason (and this is confirmed on the Behringer website) they have no U.S. distribution for this particular pedal. Weird.

In the meantime, I'm sniping real DC-2's on eBay, but the recession hasn't hit the Boss DC-2 market yet. Patience.

EDIT: This just in... there are now three dealers listing the Behringer CC-300 on eBay. Also, Behringer's website lists my local GC as a dealer, though that's probably just the pedal line, rather than this specific pedal. Anyhoo, I'll venture out at lunch time and see is they have one. I'll take this bullet, and report back to the rest of you.

BTW: My take on the legalities is, if Boss wants me to buy and play a DC-2, they should build one and sell it. Don't give me this crap about the availability of "vintage" ICs. I can buy the friggin' chips on eBay, and I hear there are people making boutique clone versions. If Boss would make a DC-2 and sell it for under $150, I'd buy one today, cash. But since they don't, rather than hassling with eBay's over-inflated prices, I will happily give Behringer a shot at making me chorus-happy for $30. I don't care about how much prior art they borrowed to create the product, as long as they will actuially provide me with a product that works.

Stay tuned.

BTW II: The Boss pedal in my avatar is NOT the DC-2 of which we speak. It was selected purely for its pinkness. I owned a DC-3 years ago and HATED it. It was too bright, and had weird overtones - I could never tell if they were digital artifacts or a complete lack of headroom. Anyway, I'll take a CE-2 over that pink piece of crap anyday. Now, off to find me a (lavender) DC-2, or a cheap black clone of same.
 
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Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Well you were a silly boy selling your DC-2, I don't think there is anything quite like it and the clones seem more expensive than the real thing.

No I won't sell you mine!

For those who don't know what a DC2 looks like here goes

e389_1.JPG
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

It is done. I took the plunge and ordered a Behringer CC-300 off eBay. For $34.44 delivered, how can I go wrong? I'll post a review when I receive it.
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Rich_S said:
It is done. I took the plunge and ordered a Behringer CC-300 off eBay. For $34.44 delivered, how can I go wrong? I'll post a review when I receive it.
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Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what's in it. Everything that comes in here immediately gets stripped down for circuit analysis, usually even before it gets tested.

This place has the longest prices on most of the Behringer stomps, though I've never ordered from them.

Can you give me a technical description of what these devices actually do? I'm not real clear on that. Presumably they are different from regular chorus pedals.

Thanks!
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

It's a tough debate. also, i think it really depends on the type of effect. I own their DD400 digital Delay. It's obviously a Boss DD (3 or 4?) ripoff. But with a delay, who's only purpose is to take the signal and duplicate it in different intervals, I can see a much grayer line in comparison to the boss than a modulation or distortion unit.

For instance the "Vintage Distortion" they put out is a shameful knock off of a Big Muff, sounds nothing like a muff.

the biggest flaw is in their construction. they literally feel like McDonalds Happy Meal toys. The battery compartments are pretty awful too. If you are careful with it and dont kick it around much i'm sure it will be fine. I'm very interested to hear what you have to say about it.
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Bezmotivnik said:
...Can you give me a technical description of what these devices actually do? I'm not real clear on that. Presumably they are different from regular chorus pedals.
Click to expand...

Similar to chorus, but it's sort of chorusing without the pulsation or wavering.

Here are some links that may describe it better.

http://www.bossarea.com/loadpage.asp?file=boxes/dc2.xml

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id9.html

http://topopiccione.atspace.com/PJ18BossDC2.html
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

Well, I got my uber-cheap Behringer clone today.

First impression was not bad. I just looked it over when it arrived. Lots of plastic, but it looks more likely to hold togther than the Ibanex Sound Tanks pedals I messed around with last summer. The pedal looks a little tougher, the switch is a little bit meatier, but it's still a tiny board-mounted button. However, the little finger that sticks down from the pedal and presses the button is stiff foam rubber - it has some give to it, so it's unlikely to either break off (cough Sound Tank! cough) or squash the button. It's not up to Boss standards, but it's not awful, either.

Then I got it back to the hotel to try it out with my Vox AmpPlug (classic rock/Marshall version). HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't get the AmpPlug's 1/4" plug to stay in either of the output jacks - it would pop out whenever I let go. The Switchcraft plugs on my guitar cable stayed in, but didn't really feel secure.

The sound is pretty good, although 1) I was only playing it through a little modeling headphone amp, and 2) I don't have a real DC-2 with which to compare it. However, it does do that "Dimension" thing - a wide, spaced-out doubling effect. You know how a CE-2 can be subtle if you turn down the intensity, but if you turn it up thick you get that wobbly-pitch, seasick sound? (Think early Midnight Oil). Well, the CC300 doesn't do that wobble. It somehow adds doubling and motion, but without the up-and-down.

The four buttons have four distinct sounds, but it's hard to describe how they differ. It's a combination of width and speed, I think. A couple of them are swoopier than the others. The buttons are also push-on/push-off so you can combine them. The combinations kind of beat against each other, and make things really weird. (The real Boss DC-2 has radio buttons, each of which pops up when you press another. It's possible to press more than one at a time, but you're not really "supposed" to.)

The Behringer didn't seem to be very noisy, even with the gain on the AmpPlug turned up.

So, more testing is in order; the sound seems to be there, but a real amp is needed. The weirdest thing is, jacks that shoot the plugs out the sides is normally a big deal, but have you seen my pedalboard? I solder the connecting wires on inside the pedals, so cheesy jacks don't really bother me. The CC300 and I might be made for each other.

I'm hoping it can cover the light chorusing sound I presently get from a CE-2 AND the big clanging sound I presently get from a BF-2 with one box. My board is heavy on the modulation effects right now, and I need to make room for a 2nd dirt box. Stay tuned...

And in the meantime... [hypnotism]send me your DC-2... send me your DC-2... send me your DC-2... send me your DC-2... send me your DC-2... [/hypnotism].
 
Re: How are the Behringer stompboxes? (DC-2 content)

I'd avoid Behringer pedals as much as I would avoid a person who is known to be unreliable/unpredictable (in a bad way, not exciting), or has a fake/plastic attitude/demeanor.

I had one of their tuners... it died on me mid song at a gig, just when I needed to tune up... and no, I do not stomp hard.

plus, once I had replaced it with a true bypass A/B box and a Boss tuner, I noticed an unprecidented improvement in my overall tone.
 
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