How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

[LogicallyInsane]

So, I just bought a SH-1N from a friend for a really cheap price. Would've been stupid not to have done it.. (Especially considering I can eBay it for prolly double what I paid..) Anyways.. just wondering if anyone has tried a SH-1N in the bridge of an Epi LP, and would a SH-55N be a good neck pickup with said SH-1N in the bridge?

Thanks.. any other suggestions for a potential neck pickup with the SH-1N in Bridge would be nice too..

 

[jeremy]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

why do you want to put a neck pup in the bridge?

 

[LogicallyInsane]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Well. I've heard the SH-1N's don't go so well in the neck of LPs..
Also read at one time or another that my favorite guitarist had a SH-1N in the bridge of his LP.. (Gary Rossington..) (Read it either here or somewhere else that one of his guitars that was in the Nashville flood was found with a SH-1N in the bridge..)

It's nothing pushing. I'm definitely waiting to get both pickups and the new pots, etc before I do this. I was just wondering if anyone has tried this, and what their results were..

I've searched thru a few threads, and found it isn't a super unheard of thing to do. Especially since Gibson used to just throw pickups in at random spots. But, it's always nice to actually see responses from people that have tried, or know a little more about guitar electronics than me throwing their 2 cents in as well.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Go ahead and do it, but play with the pickup height. Put the 59 about a nickel's width from the strings, and drop the Seth neck down lower.

 

[elelpe]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Yeah, do it. If it were me, I'd use 250k pots for the bridge position though. SH-1B is already too bright for me.

 

[LogicallyInsane]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

I think thats what I don't like about the current bridge pickup. It's so bright. and the neck is so dull.
I was thinking the fact that the SH-1n is a neck pickup, it wouldn't be as bright in the bridge.. I may have to resort to using 250k in the bridge though. Guess I can try it both ways and find which is the best.
Thanks for the thoughts and tips.. And by all means continue 'em too.. lol

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Sounds like a great combo...almost ideal for a Les Paul IMO. I love the Seth as a neck pickup, but not as a bridge pickup (too warm). And I dislike the '59 in either position (too thick). However, I'll bet putting the '59 neck pickup in the bridge position would get rid of most of what I don't like about the '59 bridge pickup.

 

[BRHGM]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

It should sound fine. I have a 59N in the bridge of my tele and a Seth in my SG. I wouldn't use the 250K pots because a Les Paul is often a dark sounding guitar. You will have to play with the pickup heights.

 

[AlexR]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

I think thats what I don't like about the current bridge pickup. It's so bright. and the neck is so dull.
I was thinking the fact that the SH-1n is a neck pickup, it wouldn't be as bright in the bridge.. I may have to resort to using 250k in the bridge though. Guess I can try it both ways and find which is the best.
Thanks for the thoughts and tips.. And by all means continue 'em too.. lol

Neck pickups aren't darker because they're wound that way, its because that position is by its nature picking up less treble. Neck pickups are wound with less wire due to the fact that this makes them brighter, to combat the neck position's propensity to be dull and muddy with more windings. If you then go and put it in the bridge.....well, you've been warned.

What you're hearing is most likely the guitar......you'll need a thicker toned bridge pickup and a neck pickup with more clarity to compensate.

And sticking in a pickup just because someone else does it (with a different guitar, amp and natural tone to you), well its not a likely road for success. If it was a guitar that was still at his house it could well be one not good enough to be out on the road with him.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

I think thats what I don't like about the current bridge pickup. It's so bright. and the neck is so dull.
I was thinking the fact that the SH-1n is a neck pickup, it wouldn't be as bright in the bridge..

You've got it all mixed up. PU's sound very different depending on what slot they're in, because of string energy. Much more of it in the neck slot, which also gives the EQ more mids and bass, and less treble, along with higher output. The bridge slot is inherently bright and sharp with less output (due to the reduced string energy), so to compensate, PU makers overwind bridge PU's to make them warmer and louder.

Neck PU's typically have less windings, to make them brighter in the neck slot (to keep them from sounding muffled and muddy). A neck PU of a set put in the bridge slot will be brighter than the bridge model. Likewise, the bridge PU of a set will be darker in the neck slot.

My advice would to a pair of Seth's in your LP (sell your SH-1 on eBay as you mentioned) and put the proceeds towards a SethB. They're one of the world's best PAF's. Incredible sound. The bridge Seth is warmer than than a SH-1B, and the neck Seth isn't as boomy/bassy as a SH-1N.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Many vintage instruments had hotter neck pickups than bridge pups, AND if you use 2 neck models you've just done the equivalent of a low-wind Duncan set like Jason Lollar does.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Running 2 neck pickups is fine.

Vintage Gibson instruments never had a calibrated set like most aftermarket companies sell today. There was no neck and bridge, there was just a pickup and as Luke Duke said often times the neck was wound hotter than the bridge anyway.

All that said if your bridge slot is thin sounding a neck position pickup in there could make your situation worse.

Also, just my 2 cents...most of the time 250k pots choke the life right out of humbucking pickups.


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[LogicallyInsane]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Thanks for the input..

The biggest reason I bought the SH-1N was the price and the fact that it's a 4 conductor.. The 59's I put in my SG last month, had the bridge as a 4 conductor and the neck as a 1 conductor. I'm going to change those out, and move the 1 conductor to the LP. (Got a triple shot on the bridge, and want one on the neck of the SG..lol)

So I'm prolly going to try to find a used SH-55N.. Then pull the old pickups, and the stock wiring. And go ahead and do a complete overhaul.. If I don't like the 59n in the bridge, I can always change it for another Seth Lover or a bridge pickup. Idk. It's just one of those deals I want to try. It may sound like crap, but then again I might make a magic guitar as well.. haha

Just didn't know if anyone had ever tried this, or if the Seth Lover was the right neck pickup for this particular situation.. Once I get it all done, I'll post my results.. Prolly be a month or two..

I'm going to go look in the vendor section right now, if anyone has a SH-55N they're looking to sell, I'm interested..

Thanks again guys!

 

[AlexR]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

The Seths are a great pickup, but whether they work for you....who knows. I'd almost put the seth neck into the bridge rather than the 59.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

It might very well work for you the only way to know is to try it and see.

Like I said earlier, calibrated sets simply didn't exist until guys like Seymour started doing it in the early days of high end replacement pickups.

Most vintage Gibson guitars have 2 pickups that are much closer to each other than they are to a calibrated set and many of them that have one pickups that's say .2k or .4k hotter have the hotter pickups in the neck!

Gibson was just winding pickups and putting them in a box and then when a Les Paul or SG or whatever got ready for pickups they picked up a pair and put them...sometimes 2 matched pickups, sometimes a slightly hotter one in the bridge sometimes the hotter one landed in the neck.

I'll give you a good example, I have a 67 ES-335 with stock pickups...the bridge pickup reads a cool 7.26k while the neck reads 8.03!!! I have a "calibrated" set but they are in the wrong positions!!!!

It can work just fine, if you have 2 pickups that are very close in output balance can be tricky but can be had...put the pickups in and see where you land, you never know...you might love it!

 

[BRHGM]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Either one works great in a Les Paul. Seths are warmer and smoother with a mid honk and the 59 is brighter and deeper with a slight scoop. It's a matter of taste. I am considering a 59/Seth set in a Les Paul myself. The 59/Custom hybrid also sounds interesting if you like to do splits. I have rarely heard too bright Les Pauls, but I have played plenty muddy sounding older Les Pauls.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

I just finished wiring up this Dean of mine, and it reminded me of your thread. The guitar came stock with a JB bridge and '59 neck, both with matte silver covers. I removed the JB entirely (waaaay too muddy), put the '59 neck in the bridge spot, and put a PG neck in the neck spot. I also converted from 3x500K V/V/T to 3x1M V/T/T, and from a .022uF cap to two .01 uF caps (one on each tone pot). This setup is pretty darned similar to what you are talking about, as the Seth neck and the PG neck are not too far removed from one another. (The Seth would be a slightly brighter and cleaner neck pickup sound.) Also, it mimics the tone controls of the Les Paul, with a separate tone pot and separate tone cap for each pickup.

I apologize for the bad audio quality. I just placed my laptop across from the amp and used its internal mic to record the pickups.

Hopefully you can tell where I have the switch. I start with a bar chord in each switch position, with all the pots on 10, then the same thing with the tone pots on 0. Then I go back to all the knobs on 10 and play on the neck pickup with an improvised chord pattern, then try to do the same thing on the bridge (though I don't think I copied the pattern perfectly). Then I mess around with the bridge tone all the way down, then the neck tone all the way down. Then a few more chords and riffs with various switch and knob positions.

The amp is a 15W 1x12 combo. Volume on 1/2, tone on 7.5, and reverb and tremolo turned completely off. No pedals.

I think the '59N sounds far better in the bridge position than it did in the neck...and far better than any '59B I've ever played. I'm not sold on the PG in the neck slot, but it's pretty damned good. If I go to anything else there, it'll be a Seth. And I will be putting the matte silver cover from the JB on it eventually.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

A SLN in the neck and 59N in the bridge reminds me of the Jimi Page setup post 1972. it give you a warm full neck combined with a biting bridge. Page used a PAF in the neck and a t-top in the bridge.

 

[LogicallyInsane]

Re: How bad would a SH-55N sound with a SH-1n in bridge of LP?

Well, I actually wound up getting a deal set up with a member here, and got a set of Seth Lovers. They should be here in the next couple of weeks.
I may still try my original idea of the 59'N in the bridge, but I do have the fallback SH-55B if I don't dig it.

Thanks for the comments and what not.. Still don't think it's a horrible idea myself.. lol

Now the question is whether I should go with Bourns or CTS pots! haha...