How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
- Thread starter GuitarStv
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Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
firebird and lp deluxe style minis are fairly different. the fb pups are more like single coil than mini hums. the vintage fb construction has two bar magnets in similar orientation to the rod magnets of a fender pup. the mini hum is like a little paf with one bar magnet in typical paf orientation. both are cleaner/clearer/brighter than a paf but a mini hum feels more like a paf where the fb has a feel a little more like a strat pup. the coils may be similar between the two but due to the magnet structure the fb can be more aggressive, especially in the bridge.
firebird and lp deluxe style minis are fairly different. the fb pups are more like single coil than mini hums. the vintage fb construction has two bar magnets in similar orientation to the rod magnets of a fender pup. the mini hum is like a little paf with one bar magnet in typical paf orientation. both are cleaner/clearer/brighter than a paf but a mini hum feels more like a paf where the fb has a feel a little more like a strat pup. the coils may be similar between the two but due to the magnet structure the fb can be more aggressive, especially in the bridge.
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
neither are shrill. a fb pup in the bridge can have a good amount of high end, but its a rounder high end than a strat bridge pup for example but will have more upper mids than a mini hum
neither are shrill. a fb pup in the bridge can have a good amount of high end, but its a rounder high end than a strat bridge pup for example but will have more upper mids than a mini hum
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
Mini-humbuckers have a strong treble and upper midrange focus. Older mini-humbuckers weren't potted real well and were a bit microphonic. When you roll back the volume they clean up nicely and sound almost like a single coil but when you roll up the volume you get a cool slashing lead sound. They work really well in two guitar player bands if your doing harmonies. Deluxes are more gritty sounding and Firebirds are a bit cleaner.
Scott Gorham from Thin Lizzy often played Les Paul Deluxe's and he's in red.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpBTgmPgFxs
Johnny Winter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH6pqn8mYZw
Tom Price from Gas Huffer most often plays and recorded with Les Paul Deluxes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xzSlE5UdWA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLG8Uy7GY9M
Mini-humbuckers have a strong treble and upper midrange focus. Older mini-humbuckers weren't potted real well and were a bit microphonic. When you roll back the volume they clean up nicely and sound almost like a single coil but when you roll up the volume you get a cool slashing lead sound. They work really well in two guitar player bands if your doing harmonies. Deluxes are more gritty sounding and Firebirds are a bit cleaner.
Scott Gorham from Thin Lizzy often played Les Paul Deluxe's and he's in red.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpBTgmPgFxs
Johnny Winter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH6pqn8mYZw
Tom Price from Gas Huffer most often plays and recorded with Les Paul Deluxes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xzSlE5UdWA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLG8Uy7GY9M
chadd
Well-known member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
I find some of the FB style can be harsh to my ears if used in the bridge position
I find some of the FB style can be harsh to my ears if used in the bridge position
NegativeEase
New member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
Gibson changed the pickups formula on the modern Firebirds from what I understand -if I am not mistaken, they mellowed them slightly.
BUT -my experience with Firebirds -both Vintage and new reissue ones in the 1990s are that they are a bright sort of more brittle (or less round) version of a P90 -less low end than a classic Gibson HB -They stands out a bit and are also good for filling tonal space in a band with multiple guitars each needing a spot or filling out the sound of a band the way a 12 string or Hammond organ does -also good for arpeggios and leads because their attack it tight and bright.
Gibson changed the pickups formula on the modern Firebirds from what I understand -if I am not mistaken, they mellowed them slightly.
BUT -my experience with Firebirds -both Vintage and new reissue ones in the 1990s are that they are a bright sort of more brittle (or less round) version of a P90 -less low end than a classic Gibson HB -They stands out a bit and are also good for filling tonal space in a band with multiple guitars each needing a spot or filling out the sound of a band the way a 12 string or Hammond organ does -also good for arpeggios and leads because their attack it tight and bright.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
My 1990 Firebird pickups sound like a weak 490 set, which is not bad, just better for rhythm than lead.
Duncan Antiquity Firebird pickups sound like a Fendery single coil with some PAF balls. Unique sound. You have to hear it. Some old Rolling Stones records have that sound.
My 1990 Firebird pickups sound like a weak 490 set, which is not bad, just better for rhythm than lead.
Duncan Antiquity Firebird pickups sound like a Fendery single coil with some PAF balls. Unique sound. You have to hear it. Some old Rolling Stones records have that sound.
elelpe
Well-known member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
I haven't played the mini as extensively as the fb but this is what I can share: out of the two, the fb has more clarity while the mini has smoother attack. Yes they're bright and cutting yet can be smooth and smokey too - with definition. Their special attributes are tightness and more focused sound in higher harmonics. No rich overtones here. It maintains definition from clean to dirty spectrum or when you tweak the tone control. They're not as open and as bouncy as single coil. They're not as thick and as rude as P-90. It can be raunchy and aggressive like P-90, especially the fb.
I haven't played the mini as extensively as the fb but this is what I can share: out of the two, the fb has more clarity while the mini has smoother attack. Yes they're bright and cutting yet can be smooth and smokey too - with definition. Their special attributes are tightness and more focused sound in higher harmonics. No rich overtones here. It maintains definition from clean to dirty spectrum or when you tweak the tone control. They're not as open and as bouncy as single coil. They're not as thick and as rude as P-90. It can be raunchy and aggressive like P-90, especially the fb.
Hollywood Rock
New member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
Minis are 10x better than single coils. You get all the sparkle you need but there's not zero meat to it like with a single coil.
Minis are 10x better than single coils. You get all the sparkle you need but there's not zero meat to it like with a single coil.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
+1 about (vintage style) Firebird PU's as closer to single coils than (vintage style) mini-hum's.
Without getting too technical, let's say that (vintage style) Firebird pickups get close to Strat single coils when it comes to inductance and resonant peak, albeit their metallic cover and wider magnetic windows keep their sound in the HB camp.
Mini hum's (Epiphone / vintage style) enclose the same coils but their added metallic parts (mini screw poles + rail in one coil) and single horizontal mag give them more mids due to more inductance, less highs due to a flatter resonant peak and more eddy currents, plus a softer attack (less sensitivity)...
A Firebird PU has more treble and/or mid focus than a mini hum and a crispier attack... BUT IME, set in the same way (in the same guitar, when mounted instead of a mini hum with poles), it has also more bass because of the stronger magnetic field. It explains the BMT chart published by Duncan for mini HB models: https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickups/guitars/other-guitars/mini-humbucker
NOTES
-it's possible to mimic 100% the rounder resonant peak of a mini hum with a Firebird pickup, by lowering the tone around 75%. It might explain why the SM1 is sold for age as a "mini hum" while it's technically a Firebird pickup (Seymour did know that a Firebird transducer can do the same than a mini hum after a few settings, I believe).
Conversely, a mini hum can't really copy a Firebird transducer, unless it's wired in parallel with an inductor in the Q filter style - but even in this case, the mini hum won't acquire the lacking sensitivity for structural reasons.
-That said, mini hum's have at least an advantage over FB PU's: being less sensitive, they are less microphonic.
FWIW (my experience and measurements. YMMV according to the precise models used).
+1 about (vintage style) Firebird PU's as closer to single coils than (vintage style) mini-hum's.
Without getting too technical, let's say that (vintage style) Firebird pickups get close to Strat single coils when it comes to inductance and resonant peak, albeit their metallic cover and wider magnetic windows keep their sound in the HB camp.
Mini hum's (Epiphone / vintage style) enclose the same coils but their added metallic parts (mini screw poles + rail in one coil) and single horizontal mag give them more mids due to more inductance, less highs due to a flatter resonant peak and more eddy currents, plus a softer attack (less sensitivity)...
A Firebird PU has more treble and/or mid focus than a mini hum and a crispier attack... BUT IME, set in the same way (in the same guitar, when mounted instead of a mini hum with poles), it has also more bass because of the stronger magnetic field. It explains the BMT chart published by Duncan for mini HB models: https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickups/guitars/other-guitars/mini-humbucker
NOTES
-it's possible to mimic 100% the rounder resonant peak of a mini hum with a Firebird pickup, by lowering the tone around 75%. It might explain why the SM1 is sold for age as a "mini hum" while it's technically a Firebird pickup (Seymour did know that a Firebird transducer can do the same than a mini hum after a few settings, I believe).
Conversely, a mini hum can't really copy a Firebird transducer, unless it's wired in parallel with an inductor in the Q filter style - but even in this case, the mini hum won't acquire the lacking sensitivity for structural reasons.
-That said, mini hum's have at least an advantage over FB PU's: being less sensitive, they are less microphonic.
FWIW (my experience and measurements. YMMV according to the precise models used).
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
Yes but I've intentionally done the contrary. My Wilshire has a neck mini hum and a bridge FB. With the tone pot of the bridge pickup @ 75%, they produce practically the same measured resonant peak and are really similar sonically, with just a bit more aliveness from the FB HB.
When I want more jangle and power, I crank up the bridge tone pot.
FWIW, I've coupled the neck mini hum with a no load pot, whose full up position enables a (personally designed and home made) LR filter diminishing the overall inductance: it gives to the mini hum the same bright response than with the FB transducer, albeit with a bit less power and sensitivity (since the LR filter is in parallel with the PU).
Yes but I've intentionally done the contrary. My Wilshire has a neck mini hum and a bridge FB. With the tone pot of the bridge pickup @ 75%, they produce practically the same measured resonant peak and are really similar sonically, with just a bit more aliveness from the FB HB.
When I want more jangle and power, I crank up the bridge tone pot.
FWIW, I've coupled the neck mini hum with a no load pot, whose full up position enables a (personally designed and home made) LR filter diminishing the overall inductance: it gives to the mini hum the same bright response than with the FB transducer, albeit with a bit less power and sensitivity (since the LR filter is in parallel with the PU).
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
That's also how I'd describe the tone of the SM-1; the clarity and chime of a good Strat pickup with a bit of PAF thickness. It's definitely my favorite Tele neck pickup.
That's also how I'd describe the tone of the SM-1; the clarity and chime of a good Strat pickup with a bit of PAF thickness. It's definitely my favorite Tele neck pickup.
Teleplayer
Active member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
Sorry to get technical for a moment, but I like to ask about the part where you wrote "more bass because of the stronger magnetic field". I'm just curious how the effect of strong magnetic field is different from winding a pickup with more inductance, or having higher reluctance in the pole piece material. IOW, does that mean a SM-1 could have relatively more bass output than a version the same windings but with steel blades and a bar magnet?
Sorry to get technical for a moment, but I like to ask about the part where you wrote "more bass because of the stronger magnetic field". I'm just curious how the effect of strong magnetic field is different from winding a pickup with more inductance, or having higher reluctance in the pole piece material. IOW, does that mean a SM-1 could have relatively more bass output than a version the same windings but with steel blades and a bar magnet?
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
The Gauss reading as measured from the strings is lower with an horizontal magnet below the coils than with two vertical bar mags of the same knd inside the coils, just below the strings. It gives more power to a SM1 set at the same height. This power enhances the bass range more than mids or high frequencies because of the lower inductance...
If time permits, I'll take the Teslameter at home and measure a SM1 vs a mini-hum. In the meantime, the only thing that I can share about magnetism is this page (where the weaker mag field typically obtained with mags below the poles can be seen, I think): http://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/Images/pickups/Pickup stuff/Magnetics.htm
The Gauss reading as measured from the strings is lower with an horizontal magnet below the coils than with two vertical bar mags of the same knd inside the coils, just below the strings. It gives more power to a SM1 set at the same height. This power enhances the bass range more than mids or high frequencies because of the lower inductance...
If time permits, I'll take the Teslameter at home and measure a SM1 vs a mini-hum. In the meantime, the only thing that I can share about magnetism is this page (where the weaker mag field typically obtained with mags below the poles can be seen, I think): http://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/Images/pickups/Pickup stuff/Magnetics.htm
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
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Do it all the time... Usually fb in neck and mini in bridge... Vol difference mentioned before and wonderful for those who use neck pup for lead and bridge for rhythm.
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Big Mike Blues
New member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
I run a set of SM3's in a korina double cut THorn.
Really great pickups. Get that buckerish grind, but the beautiful top end and articulation of a single coil.
Underappreciated IMO.
Though I wouldn't mind trying an A2 variant.
I run a set of SM3's in a korina double cut THorn.
Really great pickups. Get that buckerish grind, but the beautiful top end and articulation of a single coil.
Underappreciated IMO.
Though I wouldn't mind trying an A2 variant.
Hollywood Rock
New member
Re: How do firebird/minihumbucker pickups compare to regular single coils?
Yes yes yes
Yes yes yes
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