How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

  • It snaps forward, the case bottom pushes the headplate upwards

    Votes: 6 46.2%

  • It snaps backwards, the tuners pull the headplate down

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Other (explain below)

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • Total voters
    13
uOpt

uOpt

Something Cool
So here is something I always wondered about. Think of the typical Les Paul headstock crack. It's broken off to the back, with the crack following the fibers from behind the nut to somewhere inside the headplate front.

#1 I had always assumed without thinking it through that the headstock snaps forward, in the direction of the string pull. An example would be a cheap case where the headplate top touches (or can touch) the floor of the case. Then you let it fall on the back and force is applied upwards, combined with the string pull and the thing snaps upwards. The crack starts from the back of the neck behind the put.

#2 However, somebody made the point to me that it is the other way round. The headstock breaks without contact with the case. The case falls on it's back and the headstock has room to move toward the floor. The heavy tuners then pull downwards to strongly that the headstock snaps, starting the crack in the headplate.

I still tend to believe it's #1.

Opinions? This matters since you would relax the strings to guard against #1 but leave them pulling to guard against #2. It also matters because you would pick the case accordingly, e.g. if you think it's #1 you can't use cases where the headstock touches the bottom. To guard against #2 you would use a case that does *not* hold on to the neck (so that the flex in the neck prevents the headstock from being snapped by the tuner weight).
 
Last edited:
Re: How do Les Paul headstock break? (poll)

Re: How do Les Paul headstock break? (poll)

Ive seen dozens iof snapped gibson heads, and only one of them was broken the second way, and that guitar literally fell forward and toppled down a marshall stack and hit the floor headstock first (was a display instrument on a stand on top of the stack, doh :smack: ).

Of the others, at least half a dozen were still held on by the headstock veneer.

These were both shipping breaks and fall breaks.

I don`t really buy explanation 2.... it`s a lot like spontaneously combusting humans: theoretically possible, but nobody`s ever seen one that I know of. ;)
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

Thinking about it, explanation #1 comes in two variants, too:

#1a: snaps forward, from a push into the headplate (floor or floor through case)

#1b: snaps forward, but it is the weight of the tuners and the headplate itself that does the snapping
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

#1a sounds far more likely. I know that's how my Yamaha SG went and that's the same basic design.
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

It's pretty simple really. LP headstocks (and most Gibson headstocks for that matter) break because TLD looks at them.

and then "pop" and it's down for the count. He likes to go into music stores and do them all in a line, "pop, pop, pop!"
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

95% of all Gibson head-stocks happen from either the guitar got knocked off a stand or was leaning against the amp. So I voted for #3...... Stupid owners.....

I have been playing Gibson guitars since 1965. I have NEVER broken a head-stock on any of my Gibson's or any other for that matter. Leaving a guitar on a stand is obviously something that we all do, but for God's sake spend a few dollars and get something decent. I use Hercules stands. They run about $50.00 but hold the guitar better then most stands do & they are unlikely going to fall off. I find it odd that someone would spend 2500 to 3500 for a superior Gibson and put it on a $10 stand. In many cases I lay the guitar on the floor when it is NOT in my hands. It can't fall if you do that, but you do have to make sure it doesn't get stepped on. Another favorite of mine is it is either in my hands or in the case. In some cases this is a PITA because there is not enough room on the stage for you, your stand or case. Especially if you are planning on using more then one guitar this can become a concern. I prefer to keep the guitar in the case but we all know we can't always do this..... Use common sense & treat your guitars with respect & they will give you years of playing pleasure!
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

I just know there usually isn't enough nearly enough wood to support the headstock given the very steep angle. One of the main causes is the truss rod nut. Gibson uses the hex nut instead of an allen key, which requires more room to adjust. Therefore they have to make the adjustment cavity deeper, usually leaving about 1 centimeter of solid wood under the truss rod adjustment nut. The high tension of the strings given the angle just makes it worse.

I'm not sure why Gibson doesn't address this issue. Sure you can be very careful, but sometimes the drunk roadie isn't. Thankfully it is so common by now that it is considered an easy repair as the technique has been perfected after many cases. I guess they are just so hell-bent on "tradition". Plus, mahogany is not a very strong wood (in terms of breakage). Dense, but not very hard like rock maple.

For the people calling bogus, the insides:

View attachment 44397
 
Last edited:
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

Myaccount876 said:
I just know there usually isn't enough nearly enough wood to support the headstock given the very steep angle. One of the main causes is the truss rod nut. Gibson uses the hex nut instead of an allen key, which requires more room to adjust. Therefore they have to make the adjustment cavity deeper, usually leaving about 1 centimeter of solid wood under the truss rod adjustment nut. The high tension of the strings given the angle just makes it worse.

I'm not sure why Gibson doesn't address this issue. Sure you can be very careful, but sometimes the drunk roadie isn't. Thankfully it is so common by now that it is considered an easy repair as the technique has been perfected after many cases. I guess they are just so hell-bent on "tradition". Plus, mahogany is not a very strong wood (in terms of breakage). Dense, but not very hard like rock maple.

For the people calling bogus, the insides:

View attachment 44397
Click to expand...

Well just imagine how awful the thing would sound with a allen nut!
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

CTN said:
It's pretty simple really. LP headstocks (and most Gibson headstocks for that matter) break because TLD looks at them.

and then "pop" and it's down for the count. He likes to go into music stores and do them all in a line, "pop, pop, pop!"
Click to expand...

:lmao:

I forgot about that.
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

Let's REALLY get things in perspective:

#1 Les Paul Necks DO NOT break. The Headstocks do, though, but that still is not really frequent. (see diagram above regarding truss) And the Norlin era 3 piece Maple ones really really do not break. The thin 60's are the most breakable. This is a rarity that is amplified mostly by the complete tragedy when it does happen. Just like plane crashes. Actually quite rare - but tragic when it occurs because people usually die.

#2 The volute was actually a bad thing. Number one, the 70's necks don't break, becauase 3 piece maple RULES, so it wasn't needed. Next, what it does is cause the headstock to break instead of the neck. A neck is easy to repair. A headstock is difficult to fix. Tuners, tension, angles, etc.

#3 Guitar in cases tend not to break. I don't get your "in the case" statement. I guess if the case was in a plane and the plane crashed...Again, the Norlin Chainsaw case is AWESOME.

I agree that OWNER stupidity is the number one cause of this period. Give someone dumb enough a piece of steel, and they will find a way to ruin it. It is a musical instrument It is not meant to be dropped EVER.
 
Last edited:
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

Aceman said:
#3 Guitar in cases tend not to break. I don't get your "in the case" statement. I guess if the case was in a plane and the plane crashed...Again, the Norlin Chainsaw case is AWESOME.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that out-of-case cases are more common but I know for fact that a headstock broken off like we discuss here happens when shipping in the case.

And it makes sense, there are a lot of cases that allow the headstock to touch the floor. Either always, or just a short distance through fluffy polstering away.
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

Aceman said:
#3 Guitar in cases tend not to break. I don't get your "in the case" statement. I guess if the case was in a plane and the plane crashed...Again, the Norlin Chainsaw case is AWESOME.
Click to expand...

Baggage handling is worse than any air accident - ask Peter Frampton...
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

Bludave said:
95% of all Gibson head-stocks happen from either the guitar got knocked off a stand or was leaning against the amp. So I voted for #3...... Stupid owners.....
Click to expand...

Shipping is where I've seen the vast majority of angled headstock breaks (not being a luthier). If the neck isn't properly padded and the box gets banged around and dropped, that'll do it. Most stages at local venues are pretty small and crowded; you'd think guys would know better than to use guitar stands or lean them against their amps. You get drummers climbing to and from their kits during breaks (and heading for the bar), and they can knock just about anything over. Add alcohol, and it's that factor squared. Small stages and poor lighting, combined with piles of gear and a bunch of musicians means things aren't going to stay 'showroom new.' Accident waiting to happen. So, yes, stupid guitars owners ranks up there.
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

Aceman said:
Let's REALLY get things in perspective:

#1 Les Paul Necks DO NOT break. The Headstocks do, though, but that still is not really frequent. (see diagram above regarding truss) And the Norlin era 3 piece Maple ones really really do not break. The thin 60's are the most breakable. This is a rarity that is amplified mostly by the complete tragedy when it does happen. Just like plane crashes. Actually quite rare - but tragic when it occurs because people usually die.

#2 The volute was actually a bad thing. Number one, the 70's necks don't break, becauase 3 piece maple RULES, so it wasn't needed. Next, what it does is cause the headstock to break instead of the neck. A neck is easy to repair. A headstock is difficult to fix. Tuners, tension, angles, etc.

#3 Guitar in cases tend not to break. I don't get your "in the case" statement. I guess if the case was in a plane and the plane crashed...Again, the Norlin Chainsaw case is AWESOME.

I agree that OWNER stupidity is the number one cause of this period. Give someone dumb enough a piece of steel, and they will find a way to ruin it. It is a musical instrument It is not meant to be dropped EVER.
Click to expand...

The headstocks still can break very easily in the case.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/4725-how-not-break-your-headstock.html

Volutes absolutely help in addition to the laminate maple necks. Simply because there is more wood, and it keeps the grain between the headstock and neck parallel, which is the way Fender headstocks are (tell me the last time you saw a broken Fender headstock that was an accident). Like it was said in the MLP thread, the Norlin era made many mistakes, but they found the perfect solution to Gibson headstock breaks. Even Epiphone headstocks are stronger than Gibson headstocks because they glue on the headstocks with parallel grain and have a smaller truss rod adjustment route.

I find it a shame really because I love some Gibson SG models, and will still buy them, but just dread the day when something goes wrong at it is time to get it fixed. That is why I search for Norlin models and repaired models - a huge price reduction AND added headstock strength.
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

There have been a few shipping disasters, where the guitar ended up broken due to a fall in the case, so its not as rare as you think. The most tragic one was when Gil Yaron sent out one of his clones, only for it to get re-packed by the client halfway through its journey from the middle east and then broken on the next leg of its flight. I think Gil ended up having to wear the cost of the break on that occasion.

Then there was the (in) famous Gibson case of the early 80's I think, where the oversized headstock ended up supported on the floor of the case.
 
Re: How do Les Paul headstocks break? (poll)

AlexR said:
Then there was the (in) famous Gibson case of the early 80's I think, where the oversized headstock ended up supported on the floor of the case.
Click to expand...

Those cases are common and many were sold under the Gibson brand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top