How do pickups affect sustain?

[JeffB]

Curious if any of the gurus like Lew, Evan, etc have anything info they could share on this subject.

I'm curious how the diff magnet types can (or do?) affect sustain...

More importantly does a low output pup allow for more sustain because there is less string pull vs. a high output pickup? or does the lower output create less sustain?

Thanx in advance

 

[theodie]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

Here is the way I understand it. A pickup with a very strong magnet (ceramic is the strongest out of A2-A5 magnets) Will possibly have less sustain. It also depends on how close the pickup is adjusted to the strings. If the strings are in the magnetic field of the pickup, the magnetic force will slow down the vibration of the strings thuss, making it have less sustian.

It does not really have to do with a pickups output becuase, there are alot of different factors that determine a pickups output.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

In a vintage Strat or Tele type single coil the polepieces are magnets and will draw on the strings and pull them out of tune and have an adverse effect on sustain. The closer the neck and middle pickups are adjusted to the strings, the more they will adversely affect the sustain and pull the strings out of tune, especially the low E and A strings.

Because the string seems to be under more tension and feels stiffer near the bridge, it seems to me that the bridge pickup can be adjusted closer to the strings than the neck and middle pickups.

Alnico 5 polepieces seem to have a stronger magnetic field and adversely affect the sustain more than alnico 2 pickups which have a softer magnetic field.

Everyone who's owned both a Tele with two pickups and an Esquire with a single bridge pickup but no neck pickup has noticed that the Esquire sounds more lively, sustains better and plays a little more in tune. It's because the Esquire is missing the neck pickup so that missing pickup is not pulling on the strings.

I think humbuckers have much less of this adverse effect than single coils because the polepieces in a humbucker are not magnets and even though they do get "magnetized" by the actual magnet and do generate a magnetic field, that field must be weaker since they do not seem to pull the strings out of tune to nearly the degree that the magnets/polepieces in vintage style single coils do.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :laugh2:

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

I think humbuckers have much less of this adverse effect than single coils...

I agree completely with this, but still find that my single-bridge 'bucker guitars ring out better than those with neck pickups. Without really knowing for sure, I might contend that magnet type doesn't affect the sustain. My ESP has more sustain with a Dimebucker than any other pickup that's been in it.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

I agree completely with this, but still find that my single-bridge 'bucker guitars ring out better than those with neck pickups.

I think you are right. I have a single humbucker Strat that I love to rock out on and that puppy sustains better and sounds livlier than any of my other Strats. I think it's because it doesn't have two pickups. But I don't play that single HB Strat all that much because when it comes right down to it, I do miss the neck pickup for playing chords and rythym. Lew

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

But I don't play that single HB Strat all that much because when it comes right down to it, I do miss the neck pickup for playing chords and rythym. Lew

I'm really wierd like that... with my Strat, I'm switching pickups and adjusting the volume & tones constantly... with my 1-pickup guitars, I still work the volume, but don't miss the other controls or pickups at all.

I'm really enjoying the tone of a Distortion into my high gain setting on the V-Amp2 with the guitar's volume on 5 and fingerpicking. Hella-responsive

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

In a vintage Strat or Tele type single coil the polepieces are magnets and will draw on the strings and pull them out of tune and have an adverse effect on sustain. The closer the neck and middle pickups are adjusted to the strings, the more they will adversely affect the sustain and pull the strings out of tune, especially the low E and A strings.

Because the string seems to be under more tension and feels stiffer near the bridge, it seems to me that the bridge pickup can be adjusted closer to the strings than the neck and middle pickups.

Alnico 5 polepieces seem to have a stronger magnetic field and adversely affect the sustain more than alnico 2 pickups which have a softer magnetic field.

Everyone who's owned both a Tele with two pickups and an Esquire with a single bridge pickup but no neck pickup has noticed that the Esquire sounds more lively, sustains better and plays a little more in tune. It's because the Esquire is missing the neck pickup so that missing pickup is not pulling on the strings.

I think humbuckers have much less of this adverse effect than single coils because the polepieces in a humbucker are not magnets and even though they do get "magnetized" by the actual magnet and do generate a magnetic field, that field must be weaker since they do not seem to pull the strings out of tune to nearly the degree that the magnets/polepieces in vintage style single coils do.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :laugh2:

I agree 100%!

 

[theodie]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

As far as buckers are concerned, dont expect lots of sustain with an Invader.

 

[BlueGuitar]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

:smack:

Because the string seems to be under more tension and feels stiffer near the bridge, it seems to me that the bridge pickup can be adjusted closer to the strings than the neck and middle pickups.

Agreed! Another way to look at it would be to consider the string to be like a pry bar... pulling from the neck or middle pickup position you have much more leverage than from that of the bridge pickup.

I think humbuckers have much less of this adverse effect than single coils because the polepieces in a humbucker are not magnets and even though they do get "magnetized" by the actual magnet and do generate a magnetic field, that field must be weaker since they do not seem to pull the strings out of tune to nearly the degree that the magnets/polepieces in vintage style single coils do.

You never hear of "humbucker-itis" (like strat-itis) but nevertheless I believe that having stronger magnets in your humbuckers and adjusting them higher will have a definite dampening effect on the strings.

Dodging the tar and feathers that are sure to follow, I had a Melody Maker from the mid 60's with a single skinny SC pickup. This was a very sweet guitar and if you rocked the neck it would add the coolest vibrato to your sound. As much as I loved the guitar, I always wanted a Les Paul so I added first one and then a second humbucker to it. Loss of wood may have done much to effect the tone, but there was enormous pull on the strings from the humbucker magnets, especially the neck one. I don't think that we realize the effect of the hb magnets on our strings unless we were to physically remove the pickup! :smack:

--Thanks!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

I noticed that staggered single coils have an uneven effect on string pull, with my classic stacks my d and g strings had the most pull, while b and e had almost none. It's quite simple, cause you can see how much higher the polepieces go. It's things like these that prove, once again, that guitar playing and technical issues aren't exactly rocket science.

How do the Duncan rail designs work, are they like hums in this issue?

As far as buckers are concerned, dont expect lots of sustain with an Invader.

Why?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

I noticed that staggered single coils have an uneven effect on string pull, with my classic stacks my d and g strings had the most pull, while b and e had almost none. It's quite simple, cause you can see how much higher the polepieces go.

I've haven't noticed a big problem with Strat-itis on the unwound strings...mostly on the wound strings. And primarily on the low E string when it's fretted above the 12 th fret and pressed close to the pickup. I think it's because the low E has less tension so it's more flexible and because it's larger, has more mass and more steel in it to be attracted by the magnetic polepiece in the first place.

 

[gripweed]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

I agree completely with this, but still find that my single-bridge 'bucker guitars ring out better than those with neck pickups. Without really knowing for sure, I might contend that magnet type doesn't affect the sustain. My ESP has more sustain with a Dimebucker than any other pickup that's been in it.

Is it possible this has more to do with more wood in the guitar due to no routing for the second pickup? Just a thought...

 

[Jimbojsr]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

Thinking of the better performance of 'bridge only' axes... would my bridge tone improve if I lowered my neck pup a bit?

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

Is it possible this has more to do with more wood in the guitar due to no routing for the second pickup? Just a thought...

It certainly makes sense. I'm sure it's a combination of the two. I want to make a body with 1 bridge pickup cavity, and just enough wood cut out to fit a volume knob and jack, like the least possible amount to remove.

 

[DeadSkinSlayer3]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

http://www.warmoth.com/gallery/gallery.cfm?fuseaction=include_soloist

Checkout J. French's, that's exactly what he did.

 

[Faraday]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

It certainly makes sense. I'm sure it's a combination of the two. I want to make a body with 1 bridge pickup cavity, and just enough wood cut out to fit a volume knob and jack, like the least possible amount to remove.

My steinberger has just a bridge pup (59N). It holds notes forever...

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

http://www.warmoth.com/gallery/gallery.cfm?fuseaction=include_soloist

Checkout J. French's, that's exactly what he did.

Wow, that's really cool. What about a volume knob down by the jack, where it wouldn't really affect resonance... hmm...

 

[Boleslaw Gers 666]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

Here is the way I understand it. A pickup with a very strong magnet (ceramic is the strongest out of A2-A5 magnets) Will possibly have less sustain. It also depends on how close the pickup is adjusted to the strings. If the strings are in the magnetic field of the pickup, the magnetic force will slow down the vibration of the strings thuss, making it have less sustian.

It does not really have to do with a pickups output becuase, there are alot of different factors that determine a pickups output.

That's why I like the Les Paul Classic's ceramic magnet pickups. The guitar is so thick that it has so much natural sustain already and it takes ceramics nicely. just my thoughts.

 

[Breogan]

Re: How do pickups affect sustain?

Just to add something... some people misunderstand the fact that winding doesn't affect the sustain. A high output pickup can give the effect of a grater sustain due to the amp compresion. On the distortion side higher output produces a bigger compresion and the notes holds more time. But if you go to the clean side a Jazz and a Jb should have the same sustain if they are in the same place (height, position in the guitar... etc). Just my 2 cents