How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

edsmith

edsmith

New member
I was playing a Music Man Luke model and it was like eating dog food on fine china with a gold fork. It's such a splendid guitar but the pickups are so awful. What gives? For those of you who are not familiar with Luke guitars, they are extremely fine guitars that come equipped with an EMG 85 and two SLVs.

Anyway I tried dialing in a decent tone and nothing I did worked. Scooping the mids helped a little bit but still sucked pretty much. So I plugged in an Axis with custom wound Dimarzios and the amp came to life! The tone was so rich and inspring. I plugged the Luke back in and tried dialing in some tones with not a lot of success. Finally I plugged in a Jackson with some Duncans and the amp came back to life.

So either I am missing something here or active pickups just suck. Wait they can't suck because a lot of my favorite music is played with EMGs so WTF?
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

I had a Live Wires Hot pup in a Fender Musicmaster some yrs back, used it in a punk band. That into a Boss OD to a 78 Hiwatt/4x12 cab. It screamed!

That was a limited application.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

Remember that not every guitarist on earth has the same thing in his mind when he talks about "good tone" . So for me the lukather emg set is an awesome set....(especially the emg 85 is one of my favorite pickups). If you do not like them then just change them. Remember though that since emgs have a lot of output you should be more careful with the amps gain (don't put everything on 10), and also keep in mind they sound better with a tube amp.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

also you shuld look to see if theres a separte "high" input or any type of pad. alot of bass amps and some guitar amps have a high and low input, the high acting as a pad as such. when i play my guitar through my amp, if i dont have that -10db switch in the tone is horrid, but once i hit that button it warms it up and evens out the tone. then again, i do play through a bass amp :cool:
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

edsmith said:
I was playing a Music Man Luke model and it was like eating dog food on fine china with a gold fork. It's such a splendid guitar but the pickups are so awful. What gives? For those of you who are not familiar with Luke guitars, they are extremely fine guitars that come equipped with an EMG 85 and two SLVs.

Anyway I tried dialing in a decent tone and nothing I did worked. Scooping the mids helped a little bit but still sucked pretty much. So I plugged in an Axis with custom wound Dimarzios and the amp came to life! The tone was so rich and inspring. I plugged the Luke back in and tried dialing in some tones with not a lot of success. Finally I plugged in a Jackson with some Duncans and the amp came back to life.

So either I am missing something here or active pickups just suck. Wait they can't suck because a lot of my favorite music is played with EMGs so WTF?
Click to expand...

Actives have much fewer windings than passive PU's (which is why they can't generate enough audible volume without a battery). Windings give warmth & tone to a PU. Drastically reduce that, and you've given up most of your artificial tone, and what you have left is "pure" PU sound, which as you noticed, ain't too pretty. Same idea as tube amps adding tone & color, even though solid state amps produce a more accurate sound. Most of us aren't thrilled about the "purity" of active PU's & solid state amps (trying playing clean with that combination!). But, if you're playing metal or using tons of distortion & effects, you need a bright, cold, sterile tone or you'll get lost in the mud, which is where actives have their biggest fan base.

I listen to the Grateful Dead with Jerry's active Alembic guitars, and I think, "It sounds pretty weak and tinny... why bother? That tone's not worth the extra complications & occasional unreliability of using a battery-operated guitar."

To most of us, the combination of high-quality passive PU's with alnico magnets run through a tube amp is what "tone" is all about. Call us old-fashioned.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

blueman335 said:
Actives have much fewer windings than passive PU's (which is why they can't generate enough audible volume without a battery). Windings give warmth & tone to a PU. Drastically reduce that, and you've given up most of your artificial tone, and what you have left is "pure" PU sound, which as you noticed, ain't too pretty. Same idea as tube amps adding tone & color, even though solid state amps produce a more accurate sound. Most of us aren't thrilled about the "purity" of active PU's & solid state amps (trying playing clean with that combination!). But, if you're playing metal or using tons of distortion & effects, you need a bright, cold, sterile tone or you'll get lost in the mud, which is where actives have their biggest fan base.

I listen to the Grateful Dead with Jerry's active Alembic guitars, and I think, "It sounds pretty weak and tinny... why bother? That tone's not worth the extra complications & occasional unreliability of using a battery-operated guitar."

To most of us, the combination of high-quality passive PU's with alnico magnets run through a tube amp is what "tone" is all about. Call us old-fashioned.
Click to expand...

old fashioned or not its just plain easier :chairfall
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

It must be the amps that my favorite metal bands use because they sound great. I bought it nevertheless. Now I am going to gut it and put a PAF Pro in the bridge and some Duncan quarter pounders in the middle and neck probably.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

The EMGs in the LUKE guitar are set too low IMO. They're screwed into the wood, so you can't adjust them. With shims you can get them closer to the strings. Much more ballsy. I raised the bridge & neck pups and left the middle low.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

Update here. Played through different amps the actives sound good or bad. Tried it through a Mesa 5:50 at first and did not like the tone. I brought it home and played it through a Marshal combo and it sounded fantastic. Went back to the store and played another through a Peavey 6505 and it sounded thick and full. Put it again through a Fender and it sounded thin and tinny.

Adding bass and mids did little to improve the sound on certain amps. Here is the kicker. I put this thing through a GT8 and a Roland Cube and it was awesome.

It seems to me thus far in my experience that it really depends a lot on the amp or processor for great tone. Overall I still prefer the sound of passives a lot more. If I only played thick distorted amps like the 6505 or Diezel I might actually prefer these.

The clean tones are pretty good actually. They sound very good with chorus, delay, or flange on the cleans. Pretty darned good pickups half the time.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

Kindred_Spirits said:
So by your reasoning, a Dimarzio Tone Zone would have more tone than an SD Antiquity?
Click to expand...

No. There's a point of diminishing returns, where added windings worsen the tone. It's like a bell-shaped curve, first you have extreme clarity & treble. Then adding windings gives warmth, mids, and texture. But if you keep going, you lose too much treble & clarity, and go over to the "dark side." Most players prefer something in the middle, where the curve is high and you have a nice blend of treble, clarity, warmth, and color.

Most PU's are made to keep necks bright & clear, at 7,000 to 8,500 ohms, and bridges warm with 8,000 to 14,000+ ohms. Also helps to balance the outputs between them. That's the convential wisdom most of us subscribe to. Worked for decades.

But newer approaches are using the two extremes: actives with few windings for maximum clarity, & at the other end of the spectrum, highly overwound ceramic magnet PU's. What's "right" depends on your tastes.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

Actives are finicky for me. They sound great in some amps..and sound like @ss in others. Passive pickups for me are great all around. I don't have to worry about them that much on most amps. For high gain amps..that's where EMG's are king..lol. You can push it and push it..and it will still get that nice uncluttered distortion. I was an 85 fan when a friend of mine recommended it on the bridge position, but I'd go back to the 81, because I like the voicing of it better.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

blueman335 said:
Actives have much fewer windings than passive PU's (which is why they can't generate enough audible volume without a battery). Windings give warmth & tone to a PU. Drastically reduce that, and you've given up most of your artificial tone, and what you have left is "pure" PU sound, which as you noticed, ain't too pretty. Same idea as tube amps adding tone & color, even though solid state amps produce a more accurate sound. Most of us aren't thrilled about the "purity" of active PU's & solid state amps (trying playing clean with that combination!). But, if you're playing metal or using tons of distortion & effects, you need a bright, cold, sterile tone or you'll get lost in the mud, which is where actives have their biggest fan base.

I listen to the Grateful Dead with Jerry's active Alembic guitars, and I think, "It sounds pretty weak and tinny... why bother? That tone's not worth the extra complications & occasional unreliability of using a battery-operated guitar."

To most of us, the combination of high-quality passive PU's with alnico magnets run through a tube amp is what "tone" is all about. Call us old-fashioned.
Click to expand...

I got what you were saying and thanks for the explanation. I have a much better idea now of how it works. The actives really sound good on thick, high gain amps but taste prefers passive pickups. Mostly of the alnico type I would say.

alashredder said:
Actives are finicky for me. They sound great in some amps..and sound like @ss in others. Passive pickups for me are great all around. I don't have to worry about them that much on most amps. For high gain amps..that's where EMG's are king..lol. You can push it and push it..and it will still get that nice uncluttered distortion. I was an 85 fan when a friend of mine recommended it on the bridge position, but I'd go back to the 81, because I like the voicing of it better.
Click to expand...

I did a forum search and it would seem that the 81 is more popular than the 85 in bridge position. I am inclined to try an 81.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

edsmith said:
I got what you were saying and thanks for the explanation. I have a much better idea now of how it works. The actives really sound good on thick, high gain amps but taste prefers passive pickups. Mostly of the alnico type I would say.



I did a forum search and it would seem that the 81 is more popular than the 85 in bridge position. I am inclined to try an 81.
Click to expand...

The 85 has a bit more output and does sound "meatier" and thicker than the 81, but I happen to like the treble of the 81 for leads and the 81 sounds tighter than the 85. I think you may like the blackouts more considering that they have characteristics of passives as well. I for one, had tried all of these pickups and like the 81 out of all. I play metal..lol.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

Venometal said:
Yep! ;)
Click to expand...

lol, when I first tried them out I was like..wow..this is teh brootalz!! Then the feelings for them wore off like I had an active pickup hangover. Now I'm missing that crave and plan on just getting 1 EMG equipped guitar. I have a love hate relationship with it.:dance::rocket: I need to attend AA (Actives Anonymous)
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

I absolutely hate the 81/85 set in my Steinberger. Keep in mind though, Luke usually plugs into racks of gear (not directly into an amp), so it probably works well for him. For me, it sounds like plugging into a stereo system.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

Mincer said:
I absolutely hate the 81/85 set in my Steinberger. For me, it sounds like plugging into a stereo system.
Click to expand...

I tried a 81/85 set & they were cold, sterile, and lifeless. With a ton of distortion they'd be fine, but not suited for the blues & classic rock I play.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

How do you get a good sound from actives? It's a completely different zone you have to wrap your mind into. You have to spend some time thinking like an active pickup. Once you get the tone in your head, any amp can be tweaked to get a good sound. Just keep in mind that all of the "good" sounds will be clean, clear and hifi without those funky frequency lumps you get with passives.

Disclaimer: to my mind, a pure, non-artificial tone is a really good thing for some applications. That's why I like <6k strat pickups, t-tops, old filtertrons, ~5k tele pickups as well. Your preferences may differ. In response to above, I find plugging into a stereo is awesome for cool clean tones and wild lead sounds. Also, actives/low output passives play really nice with sound shaping boxes of all kinds. You get to pick where your color happens - in the pickups, or in the 5 extra pedals you added.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

blueman335 said:
I tried a 81/85 set & they were cold, sterile, and lifeless. With a ton of distortion they'd be fine, but not suited for the blues & classic rock I play.
Click to expand...

+1. Depending on the tone you want and what style you play, EMG's sound great to other people's ears, but for blues and classic rock..not so much. I do like the cold sounding EMG's as I play metal and ditched out the blackouts, because they were sounding warm.
 
Re: How Do You Get Good Tone With Actives?

edsmith said:
I got what you were saying and thanks for the explanation. I have a much better idea now of how it works. The actives really sound good on thick, high gain amps but taste prefers passive pickups. Mostly of the alnico type I would say.



I did a forum search and it would seem that the 81 is more popular than the 85 in bridge position. I am inclined to try an 81.
Click to expand...
Why not try the BO's. I have them put in the traditional way. Once i get my other set of BO's i'm going to try the N pup in the Bridge, because the N is Alnico V and the B is Ceramic w/ metal blades and if i like the tone of the neck i will exchange for bridges for Classic II to out in the neck. BTW: U might have to raise those pups up.
 
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