How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

Quibby

New member
First off, I play for fun, and am not concerned with being a guitar master. I've never been really interested in learning covers, or practicing scales. So when I play I try to write a song. I find that doing covers, yeah you learn chord shapes and so on, and you do develop a sense of arrangement, but that is as far as my interest goes. I don't want to sound like anyone else - maybe J Page - i find it more constructive to learn my own stuff at my pace.

I usually plug in, and if nothing is happening in five minutes, I put it down for a few hours, or maybe the rest of the day. I don't want to force it when it's not there. When something is happening...

I will play a few riffs ( and I record everything as I go) think about where the song needs to go, do few more riffs, maybe a few more, then I try to piece it together in some sort of arrangement. Typically I will play a left track on a Les Paul, on the right I use a Firebird to play an alternate or complementary part, listen to that and put a Les Paul P90's down the center.

I never double a part, as in left and right, I always try to do something a bit different. I cant see the point of duplicating rhythm's, it is a waste of an opportunity - ie you have two guitars and a bass, that's three different voices that should combine to make one big voice. I take the "Orchestra approach" where you have different lines weaving in and out to form one musical statement.

I've always found that the best stuff just happens, I usually get all my parts done in one day, arrange it, listen a few times, the save it and back it up on computer, I mean, I ALWAYS do backups. I might come back tomorrow and fine tune it, re-record the parts a bit tighter. The leave it for a week and start on the next one. When I come back a week later, it sounds refreshing, sometimes surprisingly good, sometimes crap.

If I have to labour over it and force it, then it usually turns out rubbish. When it just comes easy, thats usually the good stuff. And no, it does not come easy all the time. Thats why if nothing is happening I will just walk away, you can't flog a dead horse, it's not going to run any faster.

I record on a digital four-track, plus drums added later - I just record first-off to simple drum loops. I find that being restricted to four tracks has improved me, as you kinda have to get it right. When you have, say, 24 tracks, you can do it over and over and just pick the best take. Being forced to uses less tracks makes me concentrate and focus more. Ahh, sometimes less IS more. My four tracks being: left gtr, midd gtr, right gtr, and bass. This gets mixed down with a click, and drums added later.

What do you guys do? Any secret tips, I swear I won't tell...? I swear on my oath as a respected anchorman from the 70's - Okay, that bit was rubbish. Thanks.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

I need a good chord progression and then some sort of instrument on top that excites me then I'm off. Like you I don't force it, I wait for something to spark a vocal melody idea.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

Cool insights! Anxious to hear your stuff!

Gladly, but I cant work out how to use Soundcloud (I think), I end up just going AAHHH, then give up. What is the best, easiest way to upload sound files?

And I tend to write mainly rock stuff, like early Kiss, Foo Fighters, a touch of Zeppelin, Kings oif Leon, don't know really. I don't want to be a copy of anyone, but sure you take bits n pieces from songs and make it your own. No point being the next Nirvana, or Coldplay, or U2, Metallica, whatever cause then you're just a wanna-be has been. It's already been done, by the original band and they have perfected their own sound. You wanna know the next big band that is going to "make it?" It'll be a band that sounds like themselves and not a clone of another band.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

Sometimes I'll start with a melody in my head, then try to get it somewhat close on guitar (on the inside, I'm Tchaikovsky, on the outside I'm that guy at Guitar Center droning Smoke On The Water :lol: )

I'll try to find a chord progression based on the melody, then figure out everything else.

Other times, I'll start with a drum loop and a bass pattern/groove, then go from there.

Other times, I'll have a riff that either repeats indefinitely (GC Guy) and try to expand it from there, or a riff that leads into a rhythm that leads to a solo.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

It took roughly 15 years or more to write Colossus - http://newcenstein.com/mp3/Album/Colossus2-Mix050612.mp3

I had the ascending intro riff for about 5 years, the descending riff after that about 7 years, and the main rhythm pattern about 15 years, though it was always the off-time version heard later, after the second descending section.

The F# arpeggiated thing came out while I was stringing it all together.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

15 years ? I'm not going to comment one way another about the music, because it is such a personal thing, yeah it was nice, but the thing is, for me anyway...

The style of music and type of stuff I was doing 15 years ago is just worlds away from now. I used to be into Metallica etc, I would have written stuff that sounds just like Metallica (fast, power chords, F the world etc). Now 15 years later I cant stand Metallica for those very same reasons. Now I consider music to be:

1: it is not an athletic event where fastest is best.
2: Playing slow does not make you gay or indicate lack of musical ability.
3: It's not what you are physicaly able to play, It is what your mind wants you to play.

I'll use Malmsteen and John Williams as two examples. Whether I like or dislike is irrelevant. Malmsteen might play, oh, 100 notes per second. Physically impressive, yes. Musically impressive, that's debatable.
The soundtrack to JAWS: it's just E and F. physically impressive, no, but musically impressive, well I know a lot of people have peed their pants, me included, just based on two notes. It is what the individual considers to be music or not.

I just think you'd be a hell of a lot better musician now than you were 15 years ago. Show us what you can do NOW. It can be hard to let go of older music we write, because it meant somrthing at the time. If it still rocks your house, great, but one of the hardest things for musicians is to accept self-change, or growth within themselves.

It took me a long time to come to terms with, to realise, that Metallica suck (to me) when I had devoted so much of my life to them. Was my whole previous life just a lie? Was I blind? No, I wasn't, and I appreciate every minute that I worshiped them, but people ARE allowd to change and grow.

I wish you all the encouragement in the world reguardless of what musical pursuit that may be.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

Fair enough, but this is what I usually write:

http://newcenstein.com/mp3/Album/BrandNewDay/StormyNights.mp3

(and the other songs in that directory
http://newcenstein.com/mp3/Album/BrandNewDay )

That was my first CD back in 2005.


My second one was about 6 years in the making, and has what I consider to be largely different material:

http://newcenstein.com/mp3/Album/TheRoadAhead/Awaken.mp3

(the other tracks can be found in the directory here
http://newcenstein.com/mp3/Album/TheRoadAhead )


Some of those tracks were either started or completed as far back as 1993.
Most of the others were written at the same time I came up with various Metal riffs.

I never got into learning how to Shred. It was nice to listen to once in a while, but when everyone and their mother could do it, it stopped being impressive. I still don't find it impressive. For me, it has to have melody. For the heavier stuff, I'll throw in what little speedy-licking I can, but somewhere in there is going to be a more melodic part, and that's going to be the focus.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

I never got into learning how to Shred. It was nice to listen to once in a while, but when everyone and their mother could do it, it stopped being impressive. I still don't find it impressive. For me, it has to have melody. For the heavier stuff, I'll throw in what little speedy-licking I can, but somewhere in there is going to be a more melodic part, and that's going to be the focus.

Thats exactly what I mean, after a while you realise physical ability has nothing to do with mental ability. We'd all like to be super human on the guitar, or bass, drums, flute whatever, but it is about what comes out of the speaker that matters.

If one drummer can play 16th's at 300 bpm, and the next guy can do 160 bpm, so what! There is no trophy at the end of the day, except for a gold record, and that gold record couldn't care less if you used one, two, or six feet to hammer that drum beat. What comes first is the music out of the speaker. It's not an athletic track meet, it's music, be it one note or a hundred notes.

No matter how good you think you are, there is ALWAYS someone better, somewhere, probably completely unknown, and then there is someone better than him. And then that guy puts on the JAWS soundtrack, hears two notes, and says, ahhh, thats what I was looking for.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

And then there's other stuff, like this one, which was done with a MIDI pickup into a synth.

http://newcenstein.com/mp3/swang.mp3

The timing's off due to latency, and the track was recorded with the drums at the same time. One of these days I'll score it out completely.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

I go to a public place and make eye contact with people until everyone is weirded out and avoiding me, and then I take two things and rub them together - like a piece of paper or a cup or a stapler or a magazine or like canned goods - really hard.

When my arms get tired I sigh and sigh really loud until someone looks at me, and then I yell "SHUT UP YOU DON'T OWN ME DON'T ****ING LOOK AT ME" and I leave.

I'll do this at different places until I get tired and I lay down on the ground.

Sometimes a rainbow comes down and a song slides off of it, and if I can eat the whole thing in 30 minutes, it's free.

That's how I do it.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

impressive technique adam, i now can see how you come up with some many great riffs. i can never finish the rainbow in time :(
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

impressive technique adam, i now can see how you come up with some many great riffs. i can never finish the rainbow in time :(

thanks!

the trick is to hold your throat open like you're doing a beer bong.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

hehehe very good

I just write and I try to write as often as possible. Sometimes the well is dry and sometimes it isn't. I'll re-write as many or as few times as is necessary to finish a song I like. Sometimes I finish ones I don't like just for practice especially if my wife likes it.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

The latter part of this thread had me in tears I laughed so hard. You guys rule.

As far as writing, though I don't do much now, I used to turn on a tape recorder (dating myself?) and just play until the tape ran out. Structured, crazy, what was in my head, wherever my hands took me...that sort of thing. I'd listen to the tapes over and over and then when something caught my ear, I'd remember it. Then something else caught my ear, and I'd remember it. I put together a lot of stuff based on little riffs I'd have on three of four different tapes. I was always able to put words to music pretty easily. Another thing I would do is just take a notebook and write, and write, and write, and while 90% of it was trash, I'd get lyrics that way, and then I'd naturally have some soret of melody in my head, so I'd write the chording and riffing to match the melody.
 
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Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

I go to a public place and make eye contact with people until everyone is weirded out and avoiding me, and then I take two things and rub them together - like a piece of paper or a cup or a stapler or a magazine or like canned goods - really hard.

When my arms get tired I sigh and sigh really loud until someone looks at me, and then I yell "SHUT UP YOU DON'T OWN ME DON'T ****ING LOOK AT ME" and I leave.

I'll do this at different places until I get tired and I lay down on the ground.

Sometimes a rainbow comes down and a song slides off of it, and if I can eat the whole thing in 30 minutes, it's free.

That's how I do it.

If I could sig. this whole thing I would. Quite possibly the best post I think I've ever read on this forum...hahahaha.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

I'm a lazy ***hole. I've been playing for years and only have about a dozen songs that I'm really proud of. With that said, I've always kinda noodled around until I found one or two specific chords or arpeggios that kind of spoke to me at that moment. Once you have that initial spark of inspiration, I find your brain kinda fills in the rest. Very rarely have I noodled around and had a perfect riff come out with little to no effort (although it has happened). Sometimes it's a matter of taking it slow, finding a base to work off of and letting it develop into something interesting.

I've had some songs where I've written the verse for years and kinda stumbled into the chorus of it much later on by accident (trying to write a different song and then somehow it subconsciously *clicks*). Those are the most fulfilling songs for me.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

I don't. It's better that way-especially for the poor bastards who I force to listen to them.
 
Re: How do you guys, n gal, write songs?

Sit around fiddling with the mixing desk until somebody else has an idea?
 
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