How does Dimazio...?

[mountain2012]

...get such high output out of pickups with such low DC resistance?

For example, the X2N, their highest output pickup has a resistance of 15.8k. What type of wire do you think they are using? If it's 43 awg, how do they fit so much of it on there?

http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/humbuckers/high-power/x2n

Also, anyone know what wire type is used in these models:

Custom Custom
Duncan Custom
Custom Five
Full Shred

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

D.C. Resistance is not everything.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

Resistance has more to do with tone (i.e. e.q. balance) than with output IME. What types of magnets and pole pieces are used, and where they are placed has more to to with output, i.e. how much raw energy ("signal") a pickup delivers. The number of winds does factor into this, and the more winds the more resistance...however, that is only part of the equation.

The X2Ns have ceramic magnets (very powerful), and look at those fat blade pole pieces! Looking at those things, it's obviously going to put out more signal than a similarly wound Alnico pickup with traditional pole pieces, e.g. a JB. That doesn't necessarily mean it will be louder (as in result in more decibels coming out of your amp), or that its e.q. will be a certain way...just that it creates a hotter signal in and of itself.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

Those pickups are all exactly the same coils I believe, at least the Customs are. All 43 gauge wire right?

 

[swissmountain]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

...get such high output out of pickups with such low DC resistance?

For example, the X2N, their highest output pickup has a resistance of 15.8k. What type of wire do you think they are using? If it's 43 awg, how do they fit so much of it on there?

http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/humbuckers/high-power/x2n

Never had an X2N or saw one up close but if you look at e.g. a Super Distortion you will note that the bobbins are a bit deeper than regular bobbins so you can fit more wire onto it. May be the same with an X2N. Most likely it is wound with 43 awg.

Also, anyone know what wire type is used in these models:

Custom Custom
Duncan Custom
Custom Five
Full Shred

From what I read on this forum and elsewhere the Customs and the FS bridge are all 43 awg.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

superdistortion bobbins are NOT deeper... there is a double thick mag underneath. What your seeing is the extra thickness of the mag not extra bobbin height.

 

[mountain2012]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

Also, anyone know what wire type is used in these models:

Custom Custom
Duncan Custom
Custom Five
Full Shred

 

[orpheo]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

Also, anyone know what wire type is used in these models:

Custom Custom
Duncan Custom
Custom Five
Full Shred

that question was answered 2 or 3 posts above

43 awg.

thinner gauge will give you a BIT MORE output, all things being equal. But if you wanna go all out, you need ceramics and preferably more than one. see the difference between the invader, distortion and black winter.

 

[mountain2012]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

that question was answered 2 or 3 posts above

43 awg.

thinner gauge will give you a BIT MORE output, all things being equal. But if you wanna go all out, you need ceramics and preferably more than one. see the difference between the invader, distortion and black winter.

This brings me to another question. I see a lot of "high output" pickups as having a DC resistance of around 16.5k. Since the DC resistance of a smaller gauge wire has roughly 82% the output of the next step up of larger wire, a pickup at 16.5k 44 awg has roughly the same output as one with 43 awg at 13.5k, magnets and all other parts being the same. So why are there so many "high output" pickups that use 44 awg when they could get the same output with 43? Is it just for a darker tone based on the lower resonant peak?

Then, based on this coil estimator, a humbucker with 44 awg can be wound to about 22k. So why is 16-17k such a popular wind if high output is the goal?

http://www.salvarsan.org/pickups/Coil_Estimator.html

 

[Chocklit_Thunda]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

From what I can remember the thinner wire gives you more mids as does having more winds. I think a combination of the two makes the sound too middy?

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

BachToRock says in the How to make a 59/custom hybrid thread, "The problem when you overwind a PAF style 42 guage wire pickup(59 Model, Seth, EVH, etc.) is that it starts getting garbled sounding above about 9k just as MJ has informed you...

To achieve a more beefy tone and retain clarity, you need to step to a thinner wire and wind more turns... ala the Custom models which use 43 guage wire coils wound to just above 14k which is the optimal range for tone with that wire...

The next step is the JB & Distortion which are wound up to about 16-17k with 44 gauge wire which is the optimal range for THAT wire.

Each wire has its "sweet spot" for tone and response and they all end up with about the same size coil... each wire also produces a unique set of harmonics

The comprimise when producing a "hot" pickup is that you lose some of the articulation and dynamic response of the PAF and start to suffer from compression due to the signal travelling through a greater length of thinner wire. There are benefits and comprimises with each unique design."

That is the best summary I have heard of it so far. That dc range just happens to be right around what produces the most desirable response/output balance, though of course that can be opinion.

 

[AlexR]

Re: How does Dimazio...?

You have to play around much more with winding patterns and the like when you wind out of the ideal 'tolerance rating' of each wire type. For many big players I guess its too much effort having to make radical changes to patterns for a few pickups in the range.....much better for the smaller guys to deal with that part of the market.

The PATB range for example tends to be a higher K rated pickup as you can still keep clarity with the thinner focussed staple type polepieces. The fatter bar/blade/slug poles you would need to watch the amount of wire much more carefully.