How does the G12t compare to G12h?
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Lake Placid Blues
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Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
I have just finished researching the EQ curve charts of the various Celestion and Eminence Redcoat 12" speakers. I re-graphed each chart on a linear lay out so I could compare, using the Celestion Blue as the standard of comparison.
The Celestion Blue, Greenback, G12H, and Vintage 30 are virtually identical. There are some minor but significant diffrences:
*The G12H had the virtually same curve as the Alnico Blue, except it has a slight treble spike at about 2500 hertz.
* The Greenback was the same as the G12H, but it is less loud from roughly 750Hz to about 1100hz, The G12H is stronger in the midrange than the Greenback. Since the sensitivity is taken at 1000hz it's rated louder.
* The Vintage 30 tracks the closest to the Blue of any other celestion ceramic speaker, except from about 1200hz to 2000hz. All these speakers show a dip in output from 1200Hz to 1500hz. The Vintage 30's dip is less acute, and it recovers quicker, so therefore, it has a strong upper midrange "hump" from 1600hz to 2000hz. The V30 doesn't have the slight spike at 2.5K that the GB and G12H do.
*The G12T75 is noticably diffrent from the G12H/Alnico Blue and the other speakers listed above. The G12T is 2-4 db's lower than the G12H, Blue, and V30 from 100hz up through 1100hz. It also has noticably less bass and midrange compared to the G12M Green back and even the G12-65.
The G12T is the weakest guitar speaker in the midrange and low end out there. But it is just as strong in the treble as the other Celestions.
This was what I noticed when I swapped out My G12T's for V30's(eventually GB's) . You can expect way more mids and a much more solid low end. You will notice a much better distortion tone with the stronger mids, and smoother breakup.
It's always better to push a 120 watts worth of a more effcient speaker, as compared to 300 watts of a inefficient speaker. The G12H won't mush out under gain either, with it's heavy ceramic magnet. It is actually better in that respect than the 75's.
I have just finished researching the EQ curve charts of the various Celestion and Eminence Redcoat 12" speakers. I re-graphed each chart on a linear lay out so I could compare, using the Celestion Blue as the standard of comparison.
The Celestion Blue, Greenback, G12H, and Vintage 30 are virtually identical. There are some minor but significant diffrences:
*The G12H had the virtually same curve as the Alnico Blue, except it has a slight treble spike at about 2500 hertz.
* The Greenback was the same as the G12H, but it is less loud from roughly 750Hz to about 1100hz, The G12H is stronger in the midrange than the Greenback. Since the sensitivity is taken at 1000hz it's rated louder.
* The Vintage 30 tracks the closest to the Blue of any other celestion ceramic speaker, except from about 1200hz to 2000hz. All these speakers show a dip in output from 1200Hz to 1500hz. The Vintage 30's dip is less acute, and it recovers quicker, so therefore, it has a strong upper midrange "hump" from 1600hz to 2000hz. The V30 doesn't have the slight spike at 2.5K that the GB and G12H do.
*The G12T75 is noticably diffrent from the G12H/Alnico Blue and the other speakers listed above. The G12T is 2-4 db's lower than the G12H, Blue, and V30 from 100hz up through 1100hz. It also has noticably less bass and midrange compared to the G12M Green back and even the G12-65.
The G12T is the weakest guitar speaker in the midrange and low end out there. But it is just as strong in the treble as the other Celestions.
This was what I noticed when I swapped out My G12T's for V30's(eventually GB's) . You can expect way more mids and a much more solid low end. You will notice a much better distortion tone with the stronger mids, and smoother breakup.
It's always better to push a 120 watts worth of a more effcient speaker, as compared to 300 watts of a inefficient speaker. The G12H won't mush out under gain either, with it's heavy ceramic magnet. It is actually better in that respect than the 75's.
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Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
Yes in my opinion, speakers like the G12H will sound much warmer and more "organic", than high power handling speakers. The high wattage handling speakers, like the 100's, use fiberglass type voice coil formers, and other "space age" materials to get the high rating. These "modern" materials usually effect the tone.
Yes in my opinion, speakers like the G12H will sound much warmer and more "organic", than high power handling speakers. The high wattage handling speakers, like the 100's, use fiberglass type voice coil formers, and other "space age" materials to get the high rating. These "modern" materials usually effect the tone.
drew_half_empty
Looking for Real Life
Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
well eminence seems to have gotten the best of both on the wizard. Much higher wattage & still sounds amazing & warm & all that good stuff
well eminence seems to have gotten the best of both on the wizard. Much higher wattage & still sounds amazing & warm & all that good stuff
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
All the Redcoats were slightly stronger than any of the Celestions from 150hz to about 300 hz, so they should have more precieved bass. The various Redcoat graphs shown about the same treble response as the G12H. The dip from 1200hz to 1500 looks to be more pronounced. The guvoner had the same upper midrange hump as the V30.
All the Redcoats were slightly stronger than any of the Celestions from 150hz to about 300 hz, so they should have more precieved bass. The various Redcoat graphs shown about the same treble response as the G12H. The dip from 1200hz to 1500 looks to be more pronounced. The guvoner had the same upper midrange hump as the V30.
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
Well, 440hz is the A string fundamental. I'd guess 300hz and below is Bass. Up to about 1000hz is lower mids. Up to 2K upper mids, and any thing above that treble. 1000hz is a pretty high pitch as far as fundamental note, but the overtones layered over the fundamental is what makes it fat and complex, or thinner....ect. For example, the Vintage 30 is ofton precieved as bright compared to the Blue, but the only significant diffrence is from 1.6K-2K.
Most guitar note range, as far the fundamental tone, lies below around 1000hz.
Well, 440hz is the A string fundamental. I'd guess 300hz and below is Bass. Up to about 1000hz is lower mids. Up to 2K upper mids, and any thing above that treble. 1000hz is a pretty high pitch as far as fundamental note, but the overtones layered over the fundamental is what makes it fat and complex, or thinner....ect. For example, the Vintage 30 is ofton precieved as bright compared to the Blue, but the only significant diffrence is from 1.6K-2K.
Most guitar note range, as far the fundamental tone, lies below around 1000hz.
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L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
Thanks for that!
IMO, though the G12 Alnico Blue, G12H30 and Vintage 30 all sound quite differant from each other.
The G12 Alnico Blue Reissue is very bright...perfect in an AC-30 but to bright for most other amps and alot edgier than the G12H30 or Vintage 30. I have four or five from the 60's and they are not nearly as sharp and bright as the reissue.
They might look similar on paper but they sure don't sound much alike.
Of the three, the Vintage 30 and G12H30 are the most similar, but the G12H30 has thicker, chunkier mids, more bass and smoother highs than the Vintage 30.
The Vintage 30 has alot more space and breath to the mids...not as thick and chunky as the G12H30 and not as much bass.
Don't get me wrong...I love them all, especially my early 60's G12 Alnicos and I'm a big fan of all three. But they sound very distinct differant from each other regardless of the specs on paper.
Lew
Lake Placid Blues said:
Thanks for that!
IMO, though the G12 Alnico Blue, G12H30 and Vintage 30 all sound quite differant from each other.
The G12 Alnico Blue Reissue is very bright...perfect in an AC-30 but to bright for most other amps and alot edgier than the G12H30 or Vintage 30. I have four or five from the 60's and they are not nearly as sharp and bright as the reissue.
They might look similar on paper but they sure don't sound much alike.
Of the three, the Vintage 30 and G12H30 are the most similar, but the G12H30 has thicker, chunkier mids, more bass and smoother highs than the Vintage 30.
The Vintage 30 has alot more space and breath to the mids...not as thick and chunky as the G12H30 and not as much bass.
Don't get me wrong...I love them all, especially my early 60's G12 Alnicos and I'm a big fan of all three. But they sound very distinct differant from each other regardless of the specs on paper.
Lew
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
Hi Lew,
I tend to generally agree with your assesment of the diffrences between the Blue, G12H, and Vintage30, from my own experiances too.
What looks like a minor diffrence on paper can make a more significant diffrence in actual sound. When stats are more than of minor diffrence, the diffrence in sound can be even more magnified. Of course on paper stats don't tell us much about how ceramic or alnico magnet speakers may behave when pushed, and so forth. Then there's how it's precieved.
The sonic preception of how a speaker responds can differ greatly from one person to the next. I find G12T's much harsher than V30's, but others disagree. I find the Green Back rather warm and woody, but others bright. One thing about observing charts and graphs is that they say what they say regardless of preception, so it least it's good baseline from which to start from.
Hi Lew,
I tend to generally agree with your assesment of the diffrences between the Blue, G12H, and Vintage30, from my own experiances too.
What looks like a minor diffrence on paper can make a more significant diffrence in actual sound. When stats are more than of minor diffrence, the diffrence in sound can be even more magnified. Of course on paper stats don't tell us much about how ceramic or alnico magnet speakers may behave when pushed, and so forth. Then there's how it's precieved.
The sonic preception of how a speaker responds can differ greatly from one person to the next. I find G12T's much harsher than V30's, but others disagree. I find the Green Back rather warm and woody, but others bright. One thing about observing charts and graphs is that they say what they say regardless of preception, so it least it's good baseline from which to start from.
Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
I have read that the G12H30 is a better choice for open back applications aNd the Greenback works better in closed back cabs. I have the Heritage
G12H30 in my 18w and it sounds mighty fine. I will probably not go with the Heritage H30 or M25 speakers when i get a 4x12 for the 1987X just because of price. I'm leaning toward either standard Greenbacks, Private Jacks. or maybe the Hellatone 30's
I have read that the G12H30 is a better choice for open back applications aNd the Greenback works better in closed back cabs. I have the Heritage
G12H30 in my 18w and it sounds mighty fine. I will probably not go with the Heritage H30 or M25 speakers when i get a 4x12 for the 1987X just because of price. I'm leaning toward either standard Greenbacks, Private Jacks. or maybe the Hellatone 30's
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: How does the G12t compare to G12h?
The heavier ceramic magnet on the G12H more precisely controls the cone, when reproducing lows in an open back cab. In a closed back cab, the air pressure inside the cab prevents the cone from flapping out with the lighter ceramic magnet of the G12M, thereby tightening the bass response.
Lew, how would you compare the Eminence Redfang to the re-issue Blue? How does it compare to your older Celestions? I'm still very interested in this speaker.
The heavier ceramic magnet on the G12H more precisely controls the cone, when reproducing lows in an open back cab. In a closed back cab, the air pressure inside the cab prevents the cone from flapping out with the lighter ceramic magnet of the G12M, thereby tightening the bass response.
Lew, how would you compare the Eminence Redfang to the re-issue Blue? How does it compare to your older Celestions? I'm still very interested in this speaker.
