How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

[bryan the rocker]

How many pieces of bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

when

1) All pedals are True bypass


2) There are No true bypass pedal,



Bec I notice some guitar players have 8 or 10 pedals in their pedalboard


thanks for the replies,

 

[uOpt]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

That probably depends more on the cables in between than the actual boxes.

 

[bryan the rocker]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

Yes the resistance in the cables can suck up your tone,

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

best to have a good buffer in there and it will virtually eliminate cable capacitance loss. check out MI Audio boost n buff or even newer Morley wahs.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

No definitive answer. If you stack up 5 Boss pedals, some can't stand it, others can't tell a difference. There are dudes at the HCFX forum that have massive boards, but if you have good buffers and bypass boxes there is no problem. It all comes down to the individual boxes and your preference.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

it all just depends...it depends on the pedals in question and the cables being used.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

this thread is'nt going to have any real answer... i'm interested in what will be thrown out there anywayspcorn:

 

[Hellion]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

I'm of the opinion that your "tone" is in your hands and head. Whatever signal you lose enroute to the amplification stage, you compensate for at some other point (amp tone controls, EQ, etc). I used to run enough pedals through my lead stage that it sounded like I was frying hamburgers through the amp, but when I kicked it on, the noise got covered, ya know? If you don't want to mess with your SIGNAL, leave the pedals out or run the applicable ones through the effects loop on the amp (echo, reverb, etc).

 

[some_dude]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

Generally 25ft of cable is considered the point where you can really start to hear the tone rolloff... doesn't really matter if it's one 25ft cable, or two 10ft cables with a couple of true bypass pedals in between.

 

[jeremy]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

it all just depends...it depends on the pedals in question and the cables being used.

plus the ears of the people involved etc... youll never get a hard answer that anyone will agree on.

if i am only using a few pedals, one or two, then i prefer true bypass. if i am going to run five then i want at least one good buffer in there.

if i use one true bypass pedal and two 10' chords, i dont notice any difference compared to a single 20' cable. if i use five true bypass pedals, two 10' cables and four 1' cables i notice a difference. if i replace one of those with a pedal that has a good buffer then i think the tone improves over the five true bypass pedals. i prefer the unaltered, unbuffered tone of my guitar going into my amp but to get the sounds i want then sometimes it takes a few pedals. if im going to use them then i see what works best for that situation. i always use good cable which does make a difference.

 

[wahwah]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

I'm of the opinion that your "tone" is in your hands and head. Whatever signal you lose enroute to the amplification stage, you compensate for at some other point (amp tone controls, EQ, etc). I used to run enough pedals through my lead stage that it sounded like I was frying hamburgers through the amp, but when I kicked it on, the noise got covered, ya know? If you don't want to mess with your SIGNAL, leave the pedals out or run the applicable ones through the effects loop on the amp (echo, reverb, etc).

I agree that the initial source of tone is in the imagination and the hands, but the losses through cables and pedals that I hear when things aren't right are not of the type that can be compensated for at the amp, because you are attempting to boost frequencies and properties that are lost in the process. It is more than simply EQ, it is dynamic range and sensitivity as well, I imagine due to matters of impedance and capacitance, and these things cannot be replaced by simply tweaking the treble control of the amp. In fact, all you will be boosting is noise.

There are several solutions to these problems, which include using bypass loopers and dedicated buffer pedals such as the MI Audio Boost'n'Buff, etc, along with careful cable selection. In my most complex rig, I run a total of 13 pedals, but my most 'direct' signal is through only 4 of them, all true bypass, and with a Boost'n'Buff at the end to drive the final cable to the amp. The other 9 are taken out of the chain by the bypass loops. The bypassed signal through this setup remains full bandwidth and punchy, and the loss is kept to a minimum. In this way, the tone that is in my imagination and my hands is what gets delivered to the first preamp tube in my amp, rather than a diluted approximation or distortion of it.



Cheers...................................... wahwah

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

I can say from experience that one 20 yr old cry baby wah will make your rig sound like it has a double layer of moving blankets over it...

 

[Hellion]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

I agree that the initial source of tone is in the imagination and the hands, but the losses through cables and pedals that I hear when things aren't right are not of the type that can be compensated for at the amp, because you are attempting to boost frequencies and properties that are lost in the process. It is more than simply EQ, it is dynamic range and sensitivity as well, I imagine due to matters of impedance and capacitance, and these things cannot be replaced by simply tweaking the treble control of the amp. In fact, all you will be boosting is noise.

There are several solutions to these problems, which include using bypass loopers and dedicated buffer pedals such as the MI Audio Boost'n'Buff, etc, along with careful cable selection. In my most complex rig, I run a total of 13 pedals, but my most 'direct' signal is through only 4 of them, all true bypass, and with a Boost'n'Buff at the end to drive the final cable to the amp. The other 9 are taken out of the chain by the bypass loops. The bypassed signal through this setup remains full bandwidth and punchy, and the loss is kept to a minimum. In this way, the tone that is in my imagination and my hands is what gets delivered to the first preamp tube in my amp, rather than a diluted approximation or distortion of it.



Cheers...................................... wahwah

Okay, I'll buy that, but then the answer to his question is "one (1) bypassed pedal"... Anything that you do to the direct signal between guitar and amp is going to change the tone, and it only takes one of the right (or wrong) kind to dilute/augment/change/morph (take your pick) the basic tone. You can use all the buffers that you like, it won't matter; the signal will still be affected. And I'm not talking about just tweeking the treble knob; most of the signal chains that I've used involve a loss of lower mids.

I worked with a band at one time about 15 years ago that insisted on NO pedals and a maximum of 15 feet of cable between the guitar and amp, NO wireless. They didn't sound any better to my ears than they would have had they allowed pedals or wireless. There's always a compromise.

 

[uOpt]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

Generally 25ft of cable is considered the point where you can really start to hear the tone rolloff... doesn't really matter if it's one 25ft cable, or two 10ft cables with a couple of true bypass pedals in between.

High quality cable only has a fraction of the capacitance of lower quality guitar cable (which is still a low capacitance cable).

I highly doubt that any such rule of thumb can be used.

Another concern is the plugs. With 10 plugs or so there's a huge probability that one isn't really top of the notch electrically neutral clean and in contact with a substantial surface.

A "buffer" is nothing else than putting a preamp into your guitar.

 

[some_dude]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

High quality cable only has a fraction of the capacitance of lower quality guitar cable (which is still a low capacitance cable).

Not true. Some high quality cables are very high in capacitance. Capacitance alone can't be used to judge cable quality.

Allessandro Series 3
$229/15ft - 42pf/ft.

Vovox Link Protect A
$146/15ft - 23pf/ft

Van Den Hul Integration Hybrid
$225/15ft - 47pf/ft

Evidence Audio Melody
$73/15ft - 39pf/ft

Ernie Ball Ultra Flex
$24/18ft - 23pf/ft

Fender Koil Kord
$15-15ft - 35pf/ft

Planet Waves Classic Series
$22/15ft - 27pf/ft

Planet Waves Custom Pro
$45/15ft - 32pf/ft

I highly doubt that any such rule of thumb can be used.

The going rate seems to be 20-25ft and I've found it to be pretty accurate. I'm not saying that a 30ft cable won't sound good, just that after 25ft you can audibly hear the rolloff.

A "buffer" is nothing else than putting a preamp into your guitar.

No, using a buffer is putting a preamp after a given length of cable has already attenuated certain frequencies. There will be a difference between putting that buffer in a guitar and on a pedalboard.

 

[uOpt]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

Not true. Some high quality cables are very high in capacitance. Capacitance alone can't be used to judge cable quality.

I should have said "capacitance per meter varies a lot with individual cable products".

No, using a buffer is putting a preamp after a given length of cable has already attenuated certain frequencies. There will be a difference between putting that buffer in a guitar and on a pedalboard.

Then what's the difference to putting it into the guitar but a capacitor of the same capacitance that the cable has in front?

 

[some_dude]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

Then what's the difference to putting it into the guitar but a capacitor of the same capacitance that the cable has in front?

Never tried it, but I've often wondered myself. Tonebone makes something similar for wireless users so they can simulate the high end rolloff they'd get from a longer cable, but like I said... never tried it myself.

 

[cream123]

Re: How many bypassed pedals does it take to really change your original tone

Then what's the difference to putting it into the guitar but a capacitor of the same capacitance that the cable has in front?

nothing. capacitance is capacitance