How Subtle are You?

[Demanic]

Re: How Subtle are You?

The interesting thing is that what sounds awesome practicing at home gets lost in the band mix, and what sounds good in the band mix sounds ridiculous at home. Even then, sometimes chorus or flanger after distortion can be just too much no matter what. I keep a lot of my modulation before distortion for this reason.

Delay is all over the place. It can sound good from subtle to in your face depending on what’s needed.

Been trying to explain this to my bandages for years, seemingly to no avail.

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[Jacew]

Re: How Subtle are You?

The interesting thing is that what sounds awesome practicing at home gets lost in the band mix, and what sounds good in the band mix sounds ridiculous at home. Even then, sometimes chorus or flanger after distortion can be just too much no matter what. I keep a lot of my modulation before distortion for this reason.

Delay is all over the place. It can sound good from subtle to in your face depending on what’s needed.

I keep my chorus and flanger in Boss LS-2 loop. Blending dry and wet makes a great improvement tonewise. And makes balancing easier.

 

[Jacew]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I like to hear 'em when they're on. If I can't tell without looking whether an effect is on, IMO it's not likely to make much difference in a band mix.

Might take a different approach if it weren't in a band context, or if the music weren't rock. Or even if I were the only guitarist- I could see wanting to broaden my sound some and fill more space.

Of course there's something to be said for tone that inspires- even if nobody else would notice, it can still inspire you to play better. But for me personally that's more about guitar/amp interaction and basic core tone, not so much a matter of subtle effects.

BTW: I don't believe in this. There far more guitarists with "passable" tones than great sounding ones. And very rare have really distinctive great tone, instead of just generic good tone. It's not even just about live tone, but most records too.

I can only attest that to the fact that most think small things don't make difference. Because it can't be just issues with financing or skill or anything like that in that scale.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I may try to play for a week with a bit of slap-back, vibrato, light reverb, and an always-on Fulldrive set low. If I go cold turkey and notice something missing, maybe I'll start to get it. Then again, I'm also the kind of person who wonders why they bother with un-tasteable sesame seed buns; why not just use tahini spread in your sandwich?

*Flange is the one effect I've just never found a use for; never tried one that didn't sound like a toilet flushing continuously in the back-ground while you play your guitar over it.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How Subtle are You?

The older I get, the more boring and subtle my effects get. I'm now up to four different drive pedals, all set very low, used in various combinations. The craziest I get is turning on a Big Muff occasionally, or gross over use of wah. Also, I like to keep chorus pedals in the trash can.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: How Subtle are You?

Good thread topic!

I almost always stack my pedals, regardless of type. So individually they are very subtle and combine in fun ways, especially when you stack delays. Flange is nice, but flange + phase is a strange, unique sound that defies immediate identification.

Case in point, the rough mix below:



Guitar effects in front of the amp: drive, boost, chorus, compression, doubling, pitch shifting, tape saturation.

 

[Jacew]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I may try to play for a week with a bit of slap-back, vibrato, light reverb, and an always-on Fulldrive set low. If I go cold turkey and notice something missing, maybe I'll start to get it. Then again, I'm also the kind of person who wonders why they bother with un-tasteable sesame seed buns; why not just use tahini spread in your sandwich?

*Flange is the one effect I've just never found a use for; never tried one that didn't sound like a toilet flushing continuously in the back-ground while you play your guitar over it.

Electric Mistress set right with 30% dry signal mixed in sounds glorious with distortion.

I must say it's hard to find a use for flanger without blend though.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I've found that whatever setting you think sounds "awesome" actually sounds best and much more like the 'awesome' you thought it sounds like if you turn it back halfway between not doing anything and the overkill spot you thought was sounding "awesome." YMMV

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I use a different tone for different songs. Sometimes you want just a little chorus to fatten the tone up without it sounding like the Cure. Other times you want a lot.

I almost never use reverb, especially live. It just makes things too smeary. But I have a song where the bridge section has very sparse guitar parts... just three note arpeggios I hold for three bars, and super lush trailing reverb, with a clean Fenderish amp tone.

On some parts of songs I use a Whammy set to blend in an octave higher part, which was over dubbed on the recordings.

Same with delay, etc. All depends on the song and the effect I’m going for.

I think of tones/effects like colors on a pallet.


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[Aceman]

Re: How Subtle are You?

The interesting thing is that what sounds awesome practicing at home gets lost in the band mix, and what sounds good in the band mix sounds ridiculous at home. Even then, sometimes chorus or flanger after distortion can be just too much no matter what. I keep a lot of my modulation before distortion for this reason.

Delay is all over the place. It can sound good from subtle to in your face depending on what’s needed.

Well said. Being in a two guitar band, just slight differences in the timing of hitting a chord, or a heavier/lighter touch can create natural chorus or delay. Now - we also play effect heavy music. There is chorus, delay, reverb all over what we do (80's hair)

We make a serious effort to really arrange the effects. On certain songs we both run dry. On a lot, the other guitarist uses delay on many things for his "space" I often use delay only on leads. I'll occasionally run chorus, whereas he almost never does.

We think it is pretty good tonally, but as said - in a room alone with just one guitar - it could sound like crap. On stage - coolness and bigness without being a washed out mess.

We also take care with voicing and parts as well...

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: How Subtle are You?

Of course there's something to be said for tone that inspires- even if nobody else would notice, it can still inspire you to play better. But for me personally that's more about guitar/amp interaction and basic core tone, not so much a matter of subtle effects.

I have a Guv'nor clone that I set so that it is nearly impossible to tell it is on with my amp gain, but it changes how the guitar & amp interact and feel. I can tell it is on but not with my ears. That is extremely valuable to me.
Lately I have even considered a teensy bit o' flanger just for kicks. Might ponder that for a few more months...

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: How Subtle are You?

Core tone is the thing. To my mind that includes drives & amp gain to give the basic character of my sound. When I said I like to be able to tell they're on without needing to look, I was referring to modulations/delays etc- what I'd consider special effects rather than my primary tone.

When I use a pedalboard and not my rack rig, the ChaseTone Secret Pre is always on, last in the chain. Not really something that you notice until you turn it off. And I often have an old DOD BiFET first in line, to tweak slightly for different guitars so the drives see consistent levels and behave the way I want them to.

Someone recently suggested to me that a compressor can make a good OD too (not as a boost, but for its own internal clipping). The guy who suggested is using an old 1176, a world-class studio compressor. But it's something I'd like to experiment with a bit using the Tone Press on my pedalboard.

 

[devastone]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I usually have reverb on but subtle just so it adds some space. ODs into a crunchy amp, it's usually more of a feel thing, but you can usually tell when it is on. Mod effects, yeah, if I can't tell they are on, I don't bother.

 

[Jacew]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I have a Guv'nor clone that I set so that it is nearly impossible to tell it is on with my amp gain, but it changes how the guitar & amp interact and feel. I can tell it is on but not with my ears. That is extremely valuable to me.
Lately I have even considered a teensy bit o' flanger just for kicks. Might ponder that for a few more months...

I've been trying to determine whether to ditch Hush from my fx loop. It actually does make my rig sound better, (cleaner, fuller and more articulate), but also adds annoying spongy feel. I'm not sure if I can get over that...

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I've been trying to determine whether to ditch Hush from my fx loop. It actually does make my rig sound better, (cleaner, fuller and more articulate), but also adds annoying spongy feel. I'm not sure if I can get over that...

I can’t speak to the Hush pedal but I have and use both the Boss NS-2 and the ISP G-String and neither have a spongy feel. At least I don’t notice one.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I've been trying to determine whether to ditch Hush from my fx loop. It actually does make my rig sound better, (cleaner, fuller and more articulate), but also adds annoying spongy feel. I'm not sure if I can get over that...

I think Hush is an expander-type system that splits the signal and processes highs & lows separately. If you're feeling some residual compression you might be better off with a traditional gate.

Still, Hush usually is pretty clean- are you using the stomp version or one of the rack ones?

 

[dystrust]

Re: How Subtle are You?

Someone recently suggested to me that a compressor can make a good OD too (not as a boost, but for its own internal clipping). The guy who suggested is using an old 1176, a world-class studio compressor. But it's something I'd like to experiment with a bit using the Tone Press on my pedalboard.

If he's using an 1176, he may be doing the 'all buttons' thing. An 1176 has four buttons for the compression ratio, and it'll do a really cool distortion thing if you push in all of them at once. I've recorded in a studio that had one, and I wish I could afford one for home; it made my guitar sound like awesome. I doubt your Tone Press will do the same thing, but there are several 1176-inspired compressor pedals now. If you're lucky, maybe one of them will do the 'all buttons' or 'british' mode.

 

[LLL]

Re: How Subtle are You?

Tip: To add reverb to your guitar track without drowning it out, try this:

Pipe your guitar track out (buss) to a delay set anywhere from say 25-100ms (100ms is fantastic).
After the delay, add your reverb (100% wet)

Pan the 100% dry tone left and the delayed, 100% wet reverb right.

The short delay before the reverb wash gives the dry tone room to breathe...

Sound familiar? It should: it's the VH1 reverb trick (Ted Templeman / Donn Landee).

 

[Jacew]

Re: How Subtle are You?

I think Hush is an expander-type system that splits the signal and processes highs & lows separately. If you're feeling some residual compression you might be better off with a traditional gate.

Still, Hush usually is pretty clean- are you using the stomp version or one of the rack ones?

It's the X2 stomp version. That has two separate gates in one housing.

I actually have ISP Decimator coming in. Hope that turns out better.

 

[Jacew]

Re: How Subtle are You?

Tip: To add reverb to your guitar track without drowning it out, try this:

Pipe your guitar track out (buss) to a delay set anywhere from say 25-100ms (100ms is fantastic).
After the delay, add your reverb (100% wet)

Pan the 100% dry tone left and the delayed, 100% wet reverb right.

The short delay before the reverb wash gives the dry tone room to breathe...

Sound familiar? It should: it's the VH1 reverb trick (Ted Templeman / Donn Landee).

Sounds very useful if you want lot of reverb.

I prefer subtler reverb that blends in to core tone. So it sounds like natural voice of my rig rather than room echo or effect added to it.