How to choose string gagues

[Clint 55]

So I just figured out how to make a string set that is actually balanced. The string manufacturers calculate the string tensions based on a 25.5 inch scale length from the bridge to the nut. But that measurement isn't what determines the string's tension! The bridge to the tuner is! Take a strat for example. The low E from the bridge to the tuner is 27". The high e from bridge to tuner is 32"! That's a huge difference. So what I did was go to stringtensionpro.com and compare a standard set of 10s to a set of 10s that is actually balanced from E to e.

Standard 10s on a strat

0.0100 in. 25.55 lbs 32" bridge to tuner length
0.0130 in. 22.74 lbs 31"
0.0170 in. 22.94 lbs 30"
0.0260 in. 23.68 lbs 29"
0.0360 in. 22.85 lbs 28"
0.0460 in. 18.86 lbs 27"

Truly balanced 10s On A Strat

0.0100 in. 25.55 lbs 32"
0.0135 in. 24.52 lbs 31"
0.0180 in. 25.72 lbs 30"
0.0280 in. 27.20 lbs 29"
0.0390 in. 26.64 lbs 28"
0.0540 in. 26.33 lbs 27"

I was wondering why the pre packed "balanced" sets felt horrible with the treble strings feeling all tight and the bass strings flappy as hell. I thought, "oh it must be that strings with a wider diameter bend more easily!" Doh! As it turns out, if you just throw a regular set of 10s on your strat, you're missing out on a **** ton of beef and bass in your set while not really gaining any flexibility in the treble strings. You bet I'd rather have a .054 E string instead of a .046 if it's the same tension as my high e. To choose your strings based on tension you have to actually measure out each string's overall length from bridge to tuner and then type it into stringtensionpro.com to get an accurate calculation of each string diameter's tension.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: How to choose string gagues

0.0100 in. 25.55 lbs 32 inch scale
0.0130 in. 22.74 lbs 31"
0.0170 in. 22.94 lbs 30"
0.0260 in. 23.68 lbs 29"
0.0360 in. 22.85 lbs 28"
0.0460 in. 18.86 lbs 27"

Truly balanced 10s

0.0100 in. 25.55 lbs
0.0135 in. 24.52 lbs
0.0180 in. 25.72 lbs
0.0280 in. 27.20 lbs
0.0390 in. 26.64 lbs
0.0540 in. 26.33 lbs

Did the website you found those numbers from calculate those tensions or measure them through trial and error? Because what I'm thinking for the unbalanced set of tensions above is that those lengths would only be correct if the nut is virtually frictionless and virtually massless (but it isn't) - otherwise the tensions would be different before the nut and behind the nut, and the lengths would be measured from saddle-to-nut. Just food for thought. Still interesting - have you tried the D'Addario balanced tension sets? Are they night and day compared to typical sets?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to choose string gagues

I would assume that stringtensionpro.com calculates the tensions mathematically rather than by trail and error. I know saddles to nut is accepted as scale length but using that measurement to calculate individual string tension is incorrect. Does fretting a note along the neck change the tension of the string after your finger? No, the tension is determined by the full length of the string. Yes I have tried the balanced tension daddario sets on my strat and they aren't balanced at all. Because each string on a strat has a different scale length. The bass strings were twice as floppy as the treble strings. I also tried out my theory that scale length is saddle to tuner on my strat mini by putting 10.5 - 57 on it and it feels completely even.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How to choose string gagues

First, scale length refers to the vibrating, sound producing portion of the string. What you're referring to is overall length. Calculating the tension using overall length doesn't work. My two main players are 25.5" Strats. One has staggered post locking tuners and no trees. The other has vintage, non-staggered tuners and two trees. The low E and A strings on these are probably close to the same overall length, but the rest are not.

Also, let's be fair to both ends of the string. Why aren't we worrying about the length of string between the saddle and ball?

Fretting a note indeed changes the tension of the remaining length. Put a capo on the 12th fret, then do a whole step bend at any fret. It's a lot tighter than if the capo wasn't there.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: How to choose string gagues

I would assume that stringtensionpro.com calculates the tensions mathematically rather than by trail and error. I know saddles to nut is accepted as scale length but using that measurement to calculate individual string tension is incorrect. Does fretting a note along the neck change the tension of the string after your finger? No, the tension is determined by the full length of the string. Yes I have tried the balanced tension daddario sets on my strat and they aren't balanced at all. Because each string on a strat has a different scale length. The bass strings were twice as floppy as the treble strings. I also tried out my theory that scale length is saddle to tuner on my strat mini by putting 10.5 - 57 on it and it feels completely even.

But fretting a string at different positions along the neck does change the tension distribution before and after the finger - that's why (given a perfectly constant fretboard radius) it's easier to bend a string higher up the neck than near the nut. This can be mathematically proven:

1) Given simple harmonic motion equation for frequency: f = (1/2π)*[(k/m)][SUP]0.5[/SUP], where "k" is a spring constant and "m" is the total mass of the string.

2) Rearrange for the spring constant: k = [(2π)*f][SUP]2 [/SUP]* m

3) For the sake of example, we will use the open G string (G3) for a frequency of 196.00 Hz and an estimated string mass of 0.004 kg. If you want a closer estimate of mass, mass = density * volume, so [density of string material(s)] * (π * r[SUP]2 [/SUP]* l). where "l" is the length of the string and "r" is half the diameter (thickness - in a small decimal of meters) of the string squared. Plug f and m into equation 2) and you'll get a spring constant of k = 6066.41 N/m

4) Now we have a spring constant for the G string that remains constant along the entire neck. We can use "k" for to create a function of force (in Newtons, which can be converted to pounds): F(x) = kx, which becomes F(x) = (6066.41)x. "x" being the distance from the saddle to the open or fretted point of the string. The greatest distance will be the open note, followed by the note at the first fret. These are the points where tension is highest. Fret a note half-way across the string's length and the force will be equal to (6066.4)(0.5)x, which will result in half the force as when the string is open.

Also, consider what happens in the case of a Steinberger guitar or a guitar with a very effective locking-nut. With a proper locking nut that has virtually no slippage (the system has maximum - static - friction, rather than kinetic friction on a traditional nut), you can quite literally cut the string with wire cutters behind the nut, but tension and pitch along the neck will be the same as if the string behind the nut was not cut. As a traditional nut still has a significant amount of friction, this further supports the argument that string tension is to be calculated with scale length, not the length from the saddle to tuning peg.

But what matters most is feel - there is no "right" answer to string tension. If someone has developed years of muscle memory using string sets with very unbalanced tensions, that's probably what will feel best to them - not a perfectly balanced set. If you prefer what you found to feel as a balanced set, then that's great! Use that set. I've personally never been bothered by unbalanced tension - I only really notice when the string tension is stiffer than I prefer, and I use 0.009 - 0.046 sets in C# standard on 25.5" scale length guitars, so I prefer a really light feel.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to choose string gagues

I am not trying to determine what string gauges feel right for other guitarists. I'm trying to find a scientifically correct method for calculating string tension and choosing string gauges.

A standard nut is basically just fretting a note a certain distance away from the tuner. Why would it be that fretting a note along the board doesn't change the scale length but the nut does? That is nonsensical. There is no difference between the tension of the string before or after the nut. If this were true, you wouldn't be able to do 1 bend without going out of tune. Assuming a standard nut (on 90% of guitars,) the overall length is what determines the strings tension, not the "scale length".

I have the same gauge strings on my mustang as I do on my LP. According to the scale length theory, it should be easier to bend the 10.5 gauge high e on my mustang than the 10.5 on the LP because the mustang has a 24" scale length while the LP has a 24.75" scale length. Nope, way off. The overall length for the high e on the mustang is around 31" while the same string on the LP is around 29". The LP's high e string is indeed much easier to bend than the mustang's. This is because although the LP's high e has a longer "scale length", its "overall length" is a full 2 inches shorter than the mustang. Overall length is what determines the string's tension, not scale length.

What you two are describing is the different amount of leverage you get when bending a short string vs a long string, or a string close to the nut or at the 12th fret. The tension of the string isn't higher at the 3rd fret vs the 12th fret, you have less leverage.

Your point about the locking nut makes sense, that if it's completely effective, the segment of string behind the nut doesn't affect the segment after the nut. A situation like that I would agree that the portion of string that determines overall tension is the saddle to the nut. But I'm trying to describe string tension on my #1 guitar, most guitars don't have a perfect locking nut.

I didn't disregard the portion of string between the ball and the saddle, I decided to leave it out because it probably moves much less than the string at the nut and it's the same from string to string.

 

[Aceman]

Re: How to choose string gagues

Before I read "how" to choose, could someone explain exactly what a string "gague" is and why it is important?

 

[Aceman]

Re: How to choose string gagues

I am not trying to determine what string gauges feel right for other guitarists. I'm trying to find a scientifically correct method for calculating string tension and choosing string gauges.

You know, I'm an old man, and a scientist. I appreciate the spirit of the activity, but don't think it's going to work.

And even if it does....I quote a long ago mentor:

"So what?"

 

[Mr. B]

Re: How to choose string gagues

On paper, balanced tension string sets seemed like a good idea to me. After playing them a while I decided I didn't like them because of the feel. Some things you take for granted with regular sets, like bending the crap out of the B string with ease because of its lower tension, are not as easy with the tighter "balanced tension" B string. To me, the balanced tension sets felt stiff an unresponsive. If you are not bending much, you might not notice, and there is a little slack in the B string when changing strings in fast shred type licks. For that application, the balanced tensions might be better.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to choose string gagues

You got me Aceman. I spelled 1 word wrong at 3 in the morning on the Seymour Duncan forum.

You "don't think it's going to work"? Real scientific Mr scientist. Good verifiable info there.

And So what? I'd much rather have a .054" low E on my strat instead of a .046". We're interested in tone here aren't we?

Yes Mr. B I agree with you that you have to figure out what gauges work best for you. Which is why I'm figuring out what actually defines string tension. I use stringtensionpro.com to figure out what gauges I want. You have to input the overall length from bridge to tuner for each string on your guitar to get an accurate calculation of tension. Then I order all the singles.

So I'm sitting here bending my 10.5" high e and 57" low E on my strat mini at the 12th fret. According to the scale length theory, the low E should be 7 lbs tighter than the high e. 7 lbs!! Nope, way off. According to overall length theory, which is the correct measurement, they are within a lb of each other. This is exactly what I'm experiencing in real life, they each require the same effort to bend.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How to choose string gagues

You're still ignoring the angle behind the nut. The pitch of the angle will affect the tension.

I spent a long time and started a lot of threads on here about coming up with the perfectly balanced set. Have fun with it, just don't say silly things like "each string has a different scale length."

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to choose string gagues

Each string does have a different length from bridge to tuner. It doesn't matter what you choose to call it. This is the measurement that determines overall tension, not bridge to nut.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How to choose string gagues

Each string does have a different length from bridge to tuner. It doesn't matter what you choose to call it. This is the measurement that determines overall tension, not bridge to nut.

Yes, they are different. There's more that goes into determining the tension than the saddle to tuner length, though.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to choose string gagues

Agreed. However I think saddle to tuner is about 50 times more accurate than just using saddle to nut and calling it a day. Anyways the main factors that determine tension are: the overall length, gauge, pitch.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: How to choose string gagues

Another reason I gave up finding the "perfect" set is, to my ears, balanced tension does not equal balanced tone. I love a 10-52 set for heavily distorted metal, but with single coils and a cleaner tone, the bottom is too thick and the top too thin. 11-52 doesn't feel as balanced, but it sounds more even.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to choose string gagues

I totally agree with you about just using what's right for the sound and feel that you want. I love abundant bass tho on any guitar even a single coil strat. Which is why I was very pleased to discover that a .054" low E has almost the same tension as a .010" high e for a strat.

 

[mantis]

Re: How to choose string gagues

You know when things start to get technical , I'm all in but this subject I'm not feeling it.
I select my strings based off tone and feel. I don't really care about name brands or what gauge they are. I play in E standard, Eb, Drop D , Drop Db and once in a blue moon D tuning.
I like for the most part 9-42's and 10-46 strings. I'm totally loving the NYXL's as I think they are now my very favorite string. Every guitar I put them on sings and sounds it's best.
I recently went back to a pair of Ernie Ball Cobalts after playing the NYXL's for so long which honestly I really liked the Cobalts but not anymore. I feel they basically suck balls. I totally think the NYXL's are a much better string.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to choose string gagues

NYXLs are the shiz.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to choose string gagues

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1gD9uT-Rzeo Will explains this subject correctly at 12:15

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: How to choose string gagues

I think any idea that gives you a better starting place is a perfectly fine idea. As long as you head into it with an open mind, willing to be surprised, learn and change direction when the result is not quite what you thought going into it. More power to the mathematicians - though I'm happy to continue on my naive, uninformed, trial-and-error way. Pre-calculating what the feel of my guitar is/will/should be just gives me headaches and makes me not want to play.