How to choose string gagues
- Thread starter Clint 55
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Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: How to choose string gagues
Standard pack of Daddario 10-52s on a strat calculated with bridge - tuner length.
0.0100 in. 25.55 lbs
0.0130 in. 22.74 lbs
0.0170 in. 22.94 lbs
0.0300 in. 31.86 lbs
0.0420 in. 30.72 lbs
0.0520 in. 23.58 lbs
The E strings are pretty close together, but the rest of the strings are all over the place. A difference of 9 lbs between lightest and heaviest strings. I don't really see how evening out the tensions could make anything worse.
Standard pack of Daddario 10-52s on a strat calculated with bridge - tuner length.
0.0100 in. 25.55 lbs
0.0130 in. 22.74 lbs
0.0170 in. 22.94 lbs
0.0300 in. 31.86 lbs
0.0420 in. 30.72 lbs
0.0520 in. 23.58 lbs
The E strings are pretty close together, but the rest of the strings are all over the place. A difference of 9 lbs between lightest and heaviest strings. I don't really see how evening out the tensions could make anything worse.
aleclee
Major General GAS
Re: How to choose string gagues
You can scientifically determine how to balance string tension but there's no science behind balanced tension being preferable. I've been using custom gauge strings for about 5-6 years now and I'll tell you that they're nowhere near balanced in tension. They are, however, optimized for my fingers and ears.
I understand the desire to quantify playability but I also personally decided that it's pointless, particularly so in this case. The typical reason for collecting metrics is to allow for greater repeatability. Thing is that estimating the tension isn't exact (varies based on string materials/construction) and what's most repeatable is string gauge, not tension. When going from one guitar to another (e.g., 6 in line vs 3+3), you might think that you can calculate the optimal set but there are other factors (neck carve, hardtail vs. trem, fret size) besides tension that will affect the feel. Sure, it'll give you a "better" starting point but when you get down to it, preferred tension is a means, not an end, to playability.
TL;DR -- The only numbers worth optimizing are the ones that please your fingers and ears. I'd suggest that you're better off systematically analyzing the qualitative factors that impact playability for you than trying to calculate/measure everything.
You can scientifically determine how to balance string tension but there's no science behind balanced tension being preferable. I've been using custom gauge strings for about 5-6 years now and I'll tell you that they're nowhere near balanced in tension. They are, however, optimized for my fingers and ears.
I understand the desire to quantify playability but I also personally decided that it's pointless, particularly so in this case. The typical reason for collecting metrics is to allow for greater repeatability. Thing is that estimating the tension isn't exact (varies based on string materials/construction) and what's most repeatable is string gauge, not tension. When going from one guitar to another (e.g., 6 in line vs 3+3), you might think that you can calculate the optimal set but there are other factors (neck carve, hardtail vs. trem, fret size) besides tension that will affect the feel. Sure, it'll give you a "better" starting point but when you get down to it, preferred tension is a means, not an end, to playability.
TL;DR -- The only numbers worth optimizing are the ones that please your fingers and ears. I'd suggest that you're better off systematically analyzing the qualitative factors that impact playability for you than trying to calculate/measure everything.
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Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: How to choose string gagues
Of course you're right about balanced tension not necessarily being preferable. I'm sure your custom sets are nice. Here's my first custom set that I've made based on the individual overall lengths of each string from bridge to tuner on my strat mini. (I haven't had time to order a set for my real strat.)
0.0105 in. 23.13 lbs
0.0150 in. 24.70 lbs
0.0190 in. 23.65 lbs
0.0300 in. 25.86 lbs
0.0420 in. 24.98 lbs
0.0570 in. 24.07 lbs
While I agree with you that a set without balanced tension can sound great, there are absolutely no drawbacks to this set of NYXLs on my strat mini. Chords sound big and even, there is plenty of flexibility on the treble strings which take about the same amount of effort to bend, and there is a crap load of bass in the bass strings.
I did analyze the factors that determine playability to me: I decide how big of a 1st string I want on the guitar based on its flexibility, after than I want to even out tension so each string feels the same, finally, I want to maximize bass by using as thick of bass strings possible that are still in the ballpark of the treble strings. Why are you assuming I'm retarded just because I'm not abiding by tradition "wisdom".
Of course you're right about balanced tension not necessarily being preferable. I'm sure your custom sets are nice. Here's my first custom set that I've made based on the individual overall lengths of each string from bridge to tuner on my strat mini. (I haven't had time to order a set for my real strat.)
0.0105 in. 23.13 lbs
0.0150 in. 24.70 lbs
0.0190 in. 23.65 lbs
0.0300 in. 25.86 lbs
0.0420 in. 24.98 lbs
0.0570 in. 24.07 lbs
While I agree with you that a set without balanced tension can sound great, there are absolutely no drawbacks to this set of NYXLs on my strat mini. Chords sound big and even, there is plenty of flexibility on the treble strings which take about the same amount of effort to bend, and there is a crap load of bass in the bass strings.
I did analyze the factors that determine playability to me: I decide how big of a 1st string I want on the guitar based on its flexibility, after than I want to even out tension so each string feels the same, finally, I want to maximize bass by using as thick of bass strings possible that are still in the ballpark of the treble strings. Why are you assuming I'm retarded just because I'm not abiding by tradition "wisdom".
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JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: How to choose string gagues
Here's where your numbers are gonna lie.
I've had a zillion guitars with locking trems. The strings do not feel any lighter than on a guitar without it.
Here's where your numbers are gonna lie.
I've had a zillion guitars with locking trems. The strings do not feel any lighter than on a guitar without it.
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: How to choose string gagues
I figured out that Stevie's strings weren't that crazy. He played .013 – .015 – .019p – .028 – .038 – .058. If you balance a set of 11s for a strat up from the 1st string you get: 11,15,20,30,43,59. So strings 3-6 were actually a tad lighter than a balanced set of 11s. Plus he tuned to Eb... so he was basically playing 10s with a 12 1st string... That's no big deal at all.
I figured out that Stevie's strings weren't that crazy. He played .013 – .015 – .019p – .028 – .038 – .058. If you balance a set of 11s for a strat up from the 1st string you get: 11,15,20,30,43,59. So strings 3-6 were actually a tad lighter than a balanced set of 11s. Plus he tuned to Eb... so he was basically playing 10s with a 12 1st string... That's no big deal at all.
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: How to choose string gagues
Yeah, it's a little misleading when people say he played 13s. It's essentially a stock 11 set with heavy Es.
Yeah, it's a little misleading when people say he played 13s. It's essentially a stock 11 set with heavy Es.
Dave Locher
New member
Re: How to choose string gagues
I've always felt the wound E string was too loose and floppy compared to all the others in a set of 9s or 10s, and 20 or 30 years ago I started putting a .052 on with an otherwise stock set of Ernie Ball 10s. It feels right to me.
I am totally on board with what you are saying, Clint 55. I don't have a guitar with me right now, but I know the bending tension is not exactly the same from string to string, but it only really matters to me on a couple of the strings.
For those of us with TOM bridges, the length of string should be calculated from the tuner to the tailpiece unless it's a wraparound. This also explains why the strings can feel tighter or looser on two guitars with the exact same scale length.
I've always felt the wound E string was too loose and floppy compared to all the others in a set of 9s or 10s, and 20 or 30 years ago I started putting a .052 on with an otherwise stock set of Ernie Ball 10s. It feels right to me.
I am totally on board with what you are saying, Clint 55. I don't have a guitar with me right now, but I know the bending tension is not exactly the same from string to string, but it only really matters to me on a couple of the strings.
For those of us with TOM bridges, the length of string should be calculated from the tuner to the tailpiece unless it's a wraparound. This also explains why the strings can feel tighter or looser on two guitars with the exact same scale length.
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: How to choose string gagues
Yes! I knew something was fishy when I tried a "balanced" set of daddario 9-40s on my strat. The E strings were supposed to be within a pound of each other but the low E was twice as floppy as the high e. I thought "oh wider diameter strings must be easier to bend" duh. 6 months later it finally occured to me... I think you're right about tuner to tailpiece for the tune o matic bridges. And how 2 guitars with the same scale length can have different string tensions. This discovery has been pleasing to me because if I customize a balanced set of 10s or 11s for a strat based on the correct tension defining measurement of bridge to tuner.. they come out to 10-54 or 11-59! This is great because I like plenty of bass and fat tone.
Yes! I knew something was fishy when I tried a "balanced" set of daddario 9-40s on my strat. The E strings were supposed to be within a pound of each other but the low E was twice as floppy as the high e. I thought "oh wider diameter strings must be easier to bend" duh. 6 months later it finally occured to me... I think you're right about tuner to tailpiece for the tune o matic bridges. And how 2 guitars with the same scale length can have different string tensions. This discovery has been pleasing to me because if I customize a balanced set of 10s or 11s for a strat based on the correct tension defining measurement of bridge to tuner.. they come out to 10-54 or 11-59! This is great because I like plenty of bass and fat tone.
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Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: How to choose string gagues
I've been playing this set on both my strats for a few days and they sound good. I don't hear or feel any disadvantages to using a set that's balanced to your guitar. The advantages I noticed are: treble strings require about the same amount of effort to bend, the wound strings have more bass and don't flop, chords feel even, ring out better and twang nicely.
0.0100 in. 25.55 lbs
0.0135 in. 24.52 lbs
0.0180 in. 25.72 lbs
0.0280 in. 27.20 lbs
0.0390 in. 26.64 lbs
0.0540 in. 26.33 lbs
I've been playing this set on both my strats for a few days and they sound good. I don't hear or feel any disadvantages to using a set that's balanced to your guitar. The advantages I noticed are: treble strings require about the same amount of effort to bend, the wound strings have more bass and don't flop, chords feel even, ring out better and twang nicely.
0.0100 in. 25.55 lbs
0.0135 in. 24.52 lbs
0.0180 in. 25.72 lbs
0.0280 in. 27.20 lbs
0.0390 in. 26.64 lbs
0.0540 in. 26.33 lbs
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Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: How to choose string gagues
My last email to Daddario about this issue:
Those 2 paragraphs contradicted each other. The 1st paragraph said the tension is determined by ball to tuner. The 2nd said tension is determined by saddle to nut. The former is correct. However you are using the latter for your products. Just trying to help.
They're confused:
The tension on the string itself is controlled by the force imparted by the tuning machine back to the ball-end.
That tension is essentially constant along the length of the string; i.e. all 3 sections have the same tension on them as they are one continuous length and there is little friction over the contact points to reduce it: ball to bridge/saddle, bridge/saddle to nut, and nut to tuning post.
The note/frequency is determined using that tension, on that string, between the 2 contact points in which the string is vibrating/oscillating/waving.
In this same way the frets allow you to change the scale length and create different notes.
It does not matter if the string is 4 feet long or 40 feet long, if there is 15 lbs of tension in the string, there will be 15 lbs of tension along the entire length of the string.
Another colleague had mentioned
A string that is affixed between a tuning machine and a ball end slides over the saddle/bridge and through the nut slot. The tension can be adjusted by tuning up or down at the tuning machine which causes the string to be pulled tighter or loosen.
When a string is tuned to a specific frequency, that tension at pitch is a result of the material composition of that string tuned to that pitch between two contact points.
Regardless if the tuning machine was one inch behind the nut or four inches behind the nut, the same mass/diameter of string material would be in contact along the length between the nut and saddle and therefore would result in the same tension. The excess wire outside of the playing length does not affect the amount of mass between the two contact points – which is what produces the sound and enables a fretboard to be calculated to produce notes and harmonics that will intonate
No need to reply back , use whatever numbers and tension figures you’d like. since in your eyes we don’t seem to know what we are doing here.
My last email to Daddario about this issue:
Those 2 paragraphs contradicted each other. The 1st paragraph said the tension is determined by ball to tuner. The 2nd said tension is determined by saddle to nut. The former is correct. However you are using the latter for your products. Just trying to help.
They're confused:
The tension on the string itself is controlled by the force imparted by the tuning machine back to the ball-end.
That tension is essentially constant along the length of the string; i.e. all 3 sections have the same tension on them as they are one continuous length and there is little friction over the contact points to reduce it: ball to bridge/saddle, bridge/saddle to nut, and nut to tuning post.
The note/frequency is determined using that tension, on that string, between the 2 contact points in which the string is vibrating/oscillating/waving.
In this same way the frets allow you to change the scale length and create different notes.
It does not matter if the string is 4 feet long or 40 feet long, if there is 15 lbs of tension in the string, there will be 15 lbs of tension along the entire length of the string.
Another colleague had mentioned
A string that is affixed between a tuning machine and a ball end slides over the saddle/bridge and through the nut slot. The tension can be adjusted by tuning up or down at the tuning machine which causes the string to be pulled tighter or loosen.
When a string is tuned to a specific frequency, that tension at pitch is a result of the material composition of that string tuned to that pitch between two contact points.
Regardless if the tuning machine was one inch behind the nut or four inches behind the nut, the same mass/diameter of string material would be in contact along the length between the nut and saddle and therefore would result in the same tension. The excess wire outside of the playing length does not affect the amount of mass between the two contact points – which is what produces the sound and enables a fretboard to be calculated to produce notes and harmonics that will intonate
No need to reply back , use whatever numbers and tension figures you’d like. since in your eyes we don’t seem to know what we are doing here.
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JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: How to choose string gagues
I have their balanced tension 10 set on my Strat and Les Paul/SG. The tension from string to string on both guitars feels very similar. The Fender's strings feel tighter, and the Gibson's feel looser. The lengths of string from nut to tuner vary greatly on each guitar, yet the strings feel consistent relative to one another.
On my Epiphone Les Paul, I use 11-52. The last set was strung normally, with the strings straight through the tailpiece. This time, I top wrapped them, which decreases the break angle over the saddles significantly. Top wrapped, they feel looser. Again, you're ignoring everything aside from the length from the tuner to the ball end.
I have their balanced tension 10 set on my Strat and Les Paul/SG. The tension from string to string on both guitars feels very similar. The Fender's strings feel tighter, and the Gibson's feel looser. The lengths of string from nut to tuner vary greatly on each guitar, yet the strings feel consistent relative to one another.
On my Epiphone Les Paul, I use 11-52. The last set was strung normally, with the strings straight through the tailpiece. This time, I top wrapped them, which decreases the break angle over the saddles significantly. Top wrapped, they feel looser. Again, you're ignoring everything aside from the length from the tuner to the ball end.
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: How to choose string gagues
There are only 4 variables, I'm not ignoring anything:
T = (2 x UW x L x F) / 386.4
UW- Unit Weight. Pounds per linear inch (lb/in).
L- Scale Length. This is the vibrating length of the string. - Should be overall length
F- Frequency or pitch. This is the pitch at which you will be tuning the string
expressed in cycles per second (Hertz).
T- tension.
There are only 4 variables, I'm not ignoring anything:
T = (2 x UW x L x F) / 386.4
UW- Unit Weight. Pounds per linear inch (lb/in).
L- Scale Length. This is the vibrating length of the string. - Should be overall length
F- Frequency or pitch. This is the pitch at which you will be tuning the string
expressed in cycles per second (Hertz).
T- tension.
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