How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

[Blille]

Howdy. I’m thinking of not using a tone pot in my next partscaster. This is a new one for me so I need help. It would only have a volume knob.

I used to have a guitar with a no load pot and I didn’t like it. What I would like to have is to emulate somehow having a tone pot at 10.

If I were using a volume and tone knob I would have two 500k. Since I’m going to only have a volume knob should I go with a 300k or add a resistor ?

This is the wiring I’m thinking of using btw.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

No tone and a tone on 10 is basically the same thing. Wire it just like diagram with a 500k audio taper and no resistor. Tweak from there if not happy

 

[Mincer]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

Why wouldn't you just use a 500k pot and not use a tone knob? You could always just turn the treble down a bit on your amp.

 

[Blille]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

No tone and a tone on 10 is basically the same thing. Wire it just like diagram with a 500k audio taper and no resistor. Tweak from there if not happy

The thing is that when I had the no load pot there was a clear difference between the pot on 10 and the pot in “no load mode”. So I was trying to avoid that. But I think I should just try and go from there.

Why wouldn't you just use a 500k pot and not use a tone knob? You could always just turn the treble down a bit on your amp.

I think you’re right, I’m just overcomplicating things.

 

[freefrog]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

I think you’re right, I’m just overcomplicating things.

It's not "overcomplicated" to try: it only requires a resistor linking hot and ground with two solders. You can even use alligator clips if you don't want to solder immediately.

A 470k resistor from hot to ground in parallel with your 500k volume pot will mimic the missing tone control.

That's what I've put in 2003 in my main stage guitar (a Tele style axe) and it works for me.

Now, I've also other instruments with no load tone controls and it works too: all depends on the basic tone of the guitar (reason why it never harms to try an easy mod IMHO; YMMV).

Have a nice day, everybody...

TECHNICAL NOTE - with a perfect 500k volume pot, the 470k resistor mentioned above will do a difference of almost 4dB @ resonant peak with a typical single coil through a typical cable. The fact to hear it or not will ALSO depend on the whole rig : if the loudspeaker(s) used doesn't/don't enhance the frequencies involved @ resonance, it won't make no difference, for example, while if you use a bright amp, the change will probably seem noticeable. All is always a question of playing situation (and that's why experiences / opinions vary about such topics)

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

If you want to simulate a tone pot on 10, then get a cap that's the same as what you wold use on a tone pot, and a resistor that's got the same value as the tone pot you'd normally use. Wire them in series from the hot lug of the jack to the ground lug of the jack.

That said, I think it's a pretty worthless thing to bother doing. The difference between doing that and not doing it will be baaaaaarely audible, if at all, in a totally silent room, with no other instruments playing, if you *really, really, really* imagine you are hearing it. It is thus completely inaudible in any real-world playing situation. There are always gonna be people on the Internet who claim they can hear the difference between, for example on an Esquire, the middle switch position when the tone is on 10, and the back switch position (which bypasses the tone pot). But even I, as a hardcore Esquire lover, think these people are falsely imagining hearing such differences more than they are hearing a real-world difference. I use position one as the equivalent of tone on 10, and use position 2 as a pre-set with the desired amount of treble rolled off. I never set the tone pot on 10, because there is no damned difference between switch positions 1 and 2 when you do that. Yet there is always some guy on the Internet who comes along and tells you there is...oh well. Maybe they can hear the tonal theory, while I can only hear the tone itself. Must be a deficiency of imagination on my part.

You probably didn't like your no load pot because there is no true 10 on a no load pot; 10 is replaced by no load. They don't jump from 10 to no load. They jump from 9 to no load. There is an audible difference between 9 and no load, but hardly any between a true 10 and no load.

If you find your guitar too toppy with the 500 K pot, try a 300 K instead. But I wouldn't bother monkeying with wiring in a simulated tone on 10.

 

[Jacew]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

What I did when I went for no tone configuration: I added wires to hang outside the pickguard and used screw terminal to try different combinations of resistor and cap to find the balanced tone.

 

[Blille]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

It's not "overcomplicated" to try: it only requires a resistor linking hot and ground with two solders. You can even use alligator clips if you don't want to solder immediately.

A 470k resistor from hot to ground in parallel with your 500k volume pot will mimic the missing tone control.

That's what I've put in 2003 in my main stage guitar (a Tele style axe) and it works for me.

Now, I've also other instruments with no load tone controls and it works too: all depends on the basic tone of the guitar (reason why it never harms to try an easy mod IMHO; YMMV).

Have a nice day, everybody...

TECHNICAL NOTE - with a perfect 500k volume pot, the 470k resistor mentioned above will do a difference of almost 4dB @ resonant peak with a typical single coil through a typical cable. The fact to hear it or not will ALSO depend on the whole rig : if the loudspeaker(s) used doesn't/don't enhance the frequencies involved @ resonance, it won't make no difference, for example, while if you use a bright amp, the change will probably seem noticeable. All is always a question of playing situation (and that's why experiences / opinions vary about such topics)

If you want to simulate a tone pot on 10, then get a cap that's the same as what you wold use on a tone pot, and a resistor that's got the same value as the tone pot you'd normally use. Wire them in series from the hot lug of the jack to the ground lug of the jack.

That said, I think it's a pretty worthless thing to bother doing. The difference between doing that and not doing it will be baaaaaarely audible, if at all, in a totally silent room, with no other instruments playing, if you *really, really, really* imagine you are hearing it. It is thus completely inaudible in any real-world playing situation. There are always gonna be people on the Internet who claim they can hear the difference between, for example on an Esquire, the middle switch position when the tone is on 10, and the back switch position (which bypasses the tone pot). But even I, as a hardcore Esquire lover, think these people are falsely imagining hearing such differences more than they are hearing a real-world difference. I use position one as the equivalent of tone on 10, and use position 2 as a pre-set with the desired amount of treble rolled off. I never set the tone pot on 10, because there is no damned difference between switch positions 1 and 2 when you do that. Yet there is always some guy on the Internet who comes along and tells you there is...oh well. Maybe they can hear the tonal theory, while I can only hear the tone itself. Must be a deficiency of imagination on my part.

You probably didn't like your no load pot because there is no true 10 on a no load pot; 10 is replaced by no load. They don't jump from 10 to no load. They jump from 9 to no load. There is an audible difference between 9 and no load, but hardly any between a true 10 and no load.

If you find your guitar too toppy with the 500 K pot, try a 300 K instead. But I wouldn't bother monkeying with wiring in a simulated tone on 10.

What I did when I went for no tone configuration: I added wires to hang outside the pickguard and used screw terminal to try different combinations of resistor and cap to find the balanced tone.

Thanks everybody for the tips!

I think I’ll go with just the 500k in volume first and if that doesn’t do it, start experimenting. Or go coily cable if I feel lazy and what to cut treble

 

[Clint 55]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

If you want it bright use 500k, if you want it rounder use 300k. I have 500k without a tone and single coils in my strat and really like it. If I want it darker I use the notch positions and turn down the volume a tad.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

No tone and a tone on 10 is basically the same thing. Wire it just like diagram with a 500k audio taper and no resistor. Tweak from there if not happy

Not so. Even on 10 the tone pot is still leaking some of the treble to ground.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

Not so. Even on 10 the tone pot is still leaking some of the treble to ground.

Agreed. I have 500k cts pots in one of my guitars and a toggle to take the tone pot in and out of the circuit. It is not a huge difference, but "no tone" is definitely brighter than tone on 10. It was also that way with the original pot so this is not a problem with my tone pot.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

Hence the basically

 

[Aceman]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

This, ummm, thing called the "AMPLIFIER" has a bunch of knobs on it. If you look close, there are useless little tables under them. One will say "TrEBLE" or maybe "HIGHS". If you turn that one in the right direction there will be a little less of them. Give that a try.

 

[Mincer]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

Most pedals have a tone pot, too...I'd start with the amp and pedals, since what you are asking for is pretty subtle, anyway.

 

[Blille]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

This, ummm, thing called the "AMPLIFIER" has a bunch of knobs on it. If you look close, there are useless little tables under them. One will say "TrEBLE" or maybe "HIGHS". If you turn that one in the right direction there will be a little less of them. Give that a try.

Most pedals have a tone pot, too...I'd start with the amp and pedals, since what you are asking for is pretty subtle, anyway.

Yup. I felt like I was pushing it since I’m going to have a single coil with a 500k and I’m going to go basswood but I’ll just adjust and go from there.

 

[Jacew]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

This, ummm, thing called the "AMPLIFIER" has a bunch of knobs on it. If you look close, there are useless little tables under them. One will say "TrEBLE" or maybe "HIGHS". If you turn that one in the right direction there will be a little less of them. Give that a try.

I've noticed that has tendency to kill the dynamics. I've had better luck dialing out excess treble first, then tweaking it up later in chain if needed.

 

[AlexR]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

Yeah, amp tone controls are like trying to kill a bug with a crane mounted wrecking ball.......SO much other 'collateral damage' that, unless you're deaf, then the same result is just not possible.

Maybe thats why people think no tone control and one on 10 is close......I've certainly noticed quite a difference even with 500k pots. But most old musos don't have the best ears thats for sure.

 

[gearhead63]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

Remember that pots with a HIGHER resistance rating (eg: 1 Mohm) will yield a brighter sound. If what you hear is too bright, you can wire in resistors across the volume pot outer lugs, effectively making it a lower ohms pot. Just do a little at a time, like 220 ohm, 470 ohm, etc. You can clip them in with test leads and see how it sounds before you solder it up.

 

[Blille]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

Remember that pots with a HIGHER resistance rating (eg: 1 Mohm) will yield a brighter sound. If what you hear is too bright, you can wire in resistors across the volume pot outer lugs, effectively making it a lower ohms pot. Just do a little at a time, like 220 ohm, 470 ohm, etc. You can clip them in with test leads and see how it sounds before you solder it up.

Thanks. Does this modify the taper?

 

[gearhead63]

Re: How to compensate for lack of tone pot?

It doesn't seem to have changed the taper. I have an Ibanez that was REALLY dark sounding, invader type pickups, So I installed one 1 Mohm pot in the bridge volume, and tried several different resistors. Worked out great and didn't change pickups!