How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

[theodie]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

This is a good thread BTW...thanks!


Sounds like Robert S. uses the same method.

I don't always measure it with a pick...but sometimes I do. I can do it by sight after all these years.

Thank you and it sounds like you and Robert S are a couple of old hands at it! This will help the young bucks!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

Thank you and it sounds like you and Robert S are a couple of old hands at it! This will help the young bucks!

Man everything's old...not just the hands!

Have you tried the Stew Mac Fret Jig? I haven't. But it holds the neck in the same distorted shape it would be in with strings at full tension even with the strings removed so you can level out an S curve or hump or twist or whatever.

I'll sometimes slide a fret leveling file under under the strings to accomplish something similar without the jig...but alot of guitar techs swear by the jig.

Lew

 

[theodie]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

Man everything's old...not just the hands!

Have you tried the Stew Mac Fret Jig? I haven't. But it holds the neck in the same distorted shape it would be in with strings at full tension even with the strings removed so you can level out an S curve or hump or twist or whatever.

I'll sometimes slide a fret leveling file under under the strings to accomplish something similar without the jig...but alot of guitar techs swear by the jig.

Lew

Yes, I have had one for a few years! For fret work and such, I cant live without it!!!!! Its a great tool!!!!

Excuse my mess but, here it is in action! I am getting ready to pull frets so, that would explain the soldering iron so close to everything.

 

[theodie]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

WFD, you were one of the ones that requested this, are you around?

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

LOL, that's priceless!!!! And not much different than what I do, capo the first fret, hold down the last fret and spec out the space at the 8th with my feeler guage. Sorry Theodie and thanks for this great thread and pics!

Geez...I just hold the low E string down at the first fret and highest fret and see if I can slide a Fender Medium between the middle frets and the underside of the string.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! :laugh2:

 

[theodie]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

LOL, that's priceless!!!! And not much different than what I do, capo the first fret, hold down the last fret and spec out the space at the 8th with my feeler guage. Sorry Theodie and thanks for this great thread and pics!

Like I said, it is an OK way to do it but, as I stated before there can be situations that will give you a false reading with that method! Guess, nobody paid attention to that post??????? Maybe I am very anal about this??? Considering what I do for a living I have to be!

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

Thanks for the great post. Always wondered why the StewMac ruler had to cost so much. DIY didn't seem like rocket science

There are a couple of questions though. I understand why different string gauges would require a different amount of relief (bass being the most extreme example) and why an acoustic would be completely different, but why no relief for a short scale Gibson-style guitar? Does it have to do with the "fall away" further down the fretboard?

Also, why isn't the shape of the fretboard above the 8th fret important? Guess I may be missing the point of this tool - it would be the best way to see if something funky is going on in the upper part of the fretboard.

Here are some factory specs to go by and here is where the feeler guages come into play,

American Strat, tele, 25.5 scale, Relief .001 at the 8th fret

Gibson ES 335, (will work for LP also), 24.75 scale, no relief at 8th fret

Martin 28 series, 25.4 scale, .002 at 8th fret

Fender Bass, .014 at 7th fret

PRS, 25 scale, .004 at 8th fret

These are ballpark numbers. In my experience they have been dead on the money but, different string guages and such "may" require a "bit" different specs. Set the relief just as the specs say, dont worry about what it is doing at the 12th fret!

Thanks again,

Chip

 

[theodie]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

Thanks for the great post. Always wondered why the StewMac ruler had to cost so much. DIY didn't seem like rocket science

There are a couple of questions though. I understand why different string gauges would require a different amount of relief (bass being the most extreme example) and why an acoustic would be completely different, but why no relief for a short scale Gibson-style guitar? Does it have to do with the "fall away" further down the fretboard?

Also, why isn't the shape of the fretboard above the 8th fret important? Guess I may be missing the point of this tool - it would be the best way to see if something funky is going on in the upper part of the fretboard.



Thanks again,

Chip

Chip, there is infact relief in the neck of a Gibson. Just not at the 8th fret. Just set the relief to specs and you will see that 9th fret up there is relief. I have used these specs and they seem to work best so, I go with them. Give em a try!

 

[Amateur]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

Yes, I have had one for a few years! For fret work and such, I cant live without it!!!!! Its a great tool!!!!

Excuse my mess but, here it is in action! I am getting ready to pull frets so, that would explain the soldering iron so close to everything.

May I ask why the dial indicators are at the round side of the neck? I thought the fretted side is the side you want to hold true.

 

[Pierre]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

The indicators show you the strength/pressure put on the rods between them. Basically here's how it works:
You put the guitar on it with the proper amount of relief with the old strings.
You check the indicators' measurements.
You take the strings off, bring the indicators' measurements to 0
You mess with the pressure rods until the measurements read what you had with the relief
The guitar is strapped on so it's putting constant pressure where it should.
This is to allow a fretlevel to be done WITH relief. Some people do it with the neck flat, which is much easier of course.

 

[theodie]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

The indicators show you the strength/pressure put on the rods between them. Basically here's how it works:
You put the guitar on it with the proper amount of relief with the old strings.
You check the indicators' measurements.
You take the strings off, bring the indicators' measurements to 0
You mess with the pressure rods until the measurements read what you had with the relief
The guitar is strapped on so it's putting constant pressure where it should.
This is to allow a fretlevel to be done WITH relief. Some people do it with the neck flat, which is much easier of course.

You are close Peirre! The rods are only used when the neck is being worked on to hold the neck in place! The way you adjust the neck to re-create the same neck position is with the strap, it has an adjustment nut on the bottom of the jig, and a turnbuckle jack used at the headstock (which is not pictured becasue I have already set it and pulled up the braces.

 

[Pierre]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

Considering I didn't understand half of what you said, how about I move over to yours for a year or so and you teach it all to me eh? :laugh2: Ah man what I'd give for a dedicated luthier like you or Zerb or octavedoctor or whoever else to teach me

 

[Amateur]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

I am still wondering why the indicators are at the round side. Isn't that the strings are on the fretted side and that is the side that we really have to worry about its accuracy? Or is it because the indicators will be on the way when you do the adjustment, so that you have to put it on the round side? Or may be even the fixture will be cumbersome if the indicators were on the fretted side and you just decided to put it on the other side?

 

[ErikH]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

Dave, this is great stuff. Thanks for sharing. Once I get my garage back (lots o crap in it right now) I'm definitely going to make one of these. Right now I do what Lew and Rich do but with feeler gauges instead of a pick.

P.S. I didn't forget about you making me a Tele body. My wife is still job hunting.

 

[tone4days]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

i have a comment that IN NO WAY is intended to question theodie's MOST EXCELLENT tutorial .... being a bear of very little brain, it popped into the void space in my skull that using the guitar to mark off where the fret notches should be on the yard stick would only be useful if the guitar was in perfect shape to begin with ... if the guitar was out of whack, all this would do would be to generate a template on how to make other guitars be just as 'out of whack', right?

also, how do you know how deep to cut the notches? is this a critical measurement? or is it good enough if they are deep enough to not touch the fret tops?

also, in this pic ...

what exactly am i looking at that is 'the point'?


thanks alot
t4d

 

[Surgeon]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

i have a comment that IN NO WAY is intended to question theodie's MOST EXCELLENT tutorial .... being a bear of very little brain, it popped into the void space in my skull that using the guitar to mark off where the fret notches should be on the yard stick would only be useful if the guitar was in perfect shape to begin with ... if the guitar was out of whack, all this would do would be to generate a template on how to make other guitars be just as 'out of whack', right?

also, how do you know how deep to cut the notches? is this a critical measurement? or is it good enough if they are deep enough to not touch the fret tops?


thanks alot
t4d

Assuming that I understood your question right (which may not be the case ) making a template with a wacked-out guitar should not be a problem, except in the case where you use a really-really-really (you get the idea) messed up guitar where the scale-lenght is not accurate (and therefore the frets are not spaced as they should be).... A straight-edge will remain a straight-edge whether the neck is curved as heck or not. What you wanna do with this exercise is get an idea (rough approximation) of the frets spacing. Since you're going to make the slots wider than the actual frets (and that odie specified that you'll probably need to re-grind some of 'em) you only get an approximation, which is what we want. Of course if the neck's as curved as a bow you'd be way off but I don't think anybody would (or should) used a guitar THAT screwed-up as a template....

Second, all the notches have to do is not touch the frets, their dept doesn't matter....

Odie: Great tutorial indeed...thanks

Anybody feel free to correct me if I'm missing something (or if I am actually not reading your question right T4D)

 

[Scott_F]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

I'm one of those guys that just holds down the first and last frets and eyeballs the damn thing!

 

[tone4days]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

thanks surgeon - i think you answered exactly what my question was
cheers
t4d

 

[seafoamer]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

i just eyeball that shyt, yo!

 

[Lee_M.]

Re: How to properly check neck relief, tutorial. Vault Worthy!

I'm one of those guys that just holds down the first and last frets and eyeballs the damn thing!

+1

Good tips, nonetheless. Thanks for the thread, Theodie!