How To: Slaving Amps

[LLL]

Here's a video I whipped up showing how to slave two amps together along with tone examples and loudness examples.

This is the way to go if you want to control your volume; plus it is tonally superior to attenuation:

LLL's EP01: Slaving Guitar Amps

 

[LLL]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Bump for those looking for a better-sounding alternative to attenuation.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Why are you running it into the tone stack of amp #2 and not into the phase inverter.?
thank you

 

[LLL]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Why are you running it into the tone stack of amp #2 and not into the phase inverter.?
thank you

Well, I'm not about to mod my bone-stock vintage 1967 Fender Deluxe to run as a strict poweramp. It works great without having to do so; the Treble & Bass controls are both set to "6".

But yes, you could do such a thing, or use a pure poweramp (rackmount or otherwise) or even something like an EHX .44 Caliber for the second amp.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Yeah...I was not suggesting you split your "bone-stock vintage 1967 Fender Deluxe" in half.
I was just asking why you like to use the tone stack of any amp in a slave situ.....but never mind.

 

[Demanic]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

I run an old '80 Carvin XV-212 with the additional Carvin 4X12 cab and have an old Randall RG-120 ES half stack slaved to it from the Carvin's effects output. It is loud and mean with each amp filling in distinct bandwidths.

 

[Demanic]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps


Sounds like this https://soundcloud.com/demanic-1/demanic-fools-around-with-his-schecter-baritone-blackjack
Through this

 

[Archer250]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Favorited this thread. Will definitely look into this once I got two amps

 

[LLL]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Bump for those who haven't heard of this awesome rig setup concept.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

With one speaker output to load and the other to line converter, is the impedance different to the speakers it would normally be using? Let's say my amp has 2x4ohm outputs and 2x16ohm outputs, which is the better choice?

 

[LLL]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

With one speaker output to load and the other to line converter, is the impedance different to the speakers it would normally be using? Let's say my amp has 2x4ohm outputs and 2x16ohm outputs, which is the better choice?

All depends on the ohms rating on the load... best case, match it.

For ex., I have a 16ohm HotPlate... I set my Marshall to 16ohms. No different than using real speakers.

I need to do another vid on this (that was the very 1st YouTube vid I ever made and it's 4 years old now IIRC) because there's a lot of other options one can do using this concept.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

What about the line out converter?

 

[LLL]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

What about the line out converter?

No bearing.

As long as the amp sees the proper load (via "dummy load" or real speaker) you're good.

Keep in mind a lot of these attenuators have a "speaker pass through" concept... for ex. the Hot Plate, you can go:

amp
|
hot plate -> hot plate line out -> FX etc
|
speaker

...and tap the line out signal that way if you like (not using the "load" setting here) - instead of tapping the line out from a secondary speaker jack.

My Suhr ISO Line Out Box (not a load in any way shape or form) has a "speaker thru" circuit as well.

Lots of different ways to tap the line out... just remember the golden rule: keep a proper load on the amp at all times.

A load can be any of the following:

1) real speaker
2) resistive/reactive "dummy" load
3) attenuator set to "load" (e.g. THD HotPlate)

Just match the load to your amp's speaker ohms out rating.

 

[Aceman]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Or another way to do this, which avoids cost of a vintage Marshall, the hotplate you don't love, the Suhr line pedal, and the Strymon, etc.....


And is way offing easier, and sounds better IMO, is simply:

Catalinbread (~$100 on eBay) + Fender of choice (with a touch of onboard reverb)

Maybe his recording technique for the vid was just better, maybe you put too much stuff in between. I don't know. I'm just thinking after say 2000, there has really been no reason not to just go buy one of a hundred Marshall in a box pedals.


And dig this! You can then just put a delay after the dirt pedal. Or - with the money you save buy a loop pedal!

 

[Securb]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

I try to keep my setup simple. In live situations, you sometimes have 15-minutes between bands. I can not see the value in doing all of that work to turn a Marshall head into a $49 TC Dark Matter.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Or another way to do this, which avoids cost of a vintage Marshall, the hotplate you don't love, the Suhr line pedal, and the Strymon, etc.....


And is way offing easier, and sounds better IMO, is simply:

Catalinbread (~$100 on eBay) + Fender of choice (with a touch of onboard reverb)

Maybe his recording technique for the vid was just better, maybe you put too much stuff in between. I don't know. I'm just thinking after say 2000, there has really been no reason not to just go buy one of a hundred Marshall in a box pedals.


And dig this! You can then just put a delay after the dirt pedal. Or - with the money you save buy a loop pedal!

Speaking for myself, I much prefer amp drive to pedals. I don't have any neighbours to annoy. It's my-gain, or the hi.... gain. Both of those things.

My Fender has a balanced line out after the power section before the OT exactly for this very thing. You could make a gig-ready cabless setup with a dummy load (just a bunch of resistors and a heat sink, noting fancy) and line converter into an IR box (AMT makes a nice one) and get a consistent sound with real power tube colour/drive. You could do a lot. It's not entirely without merit.

 

[Aceman]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

My Fender has a balanced line out after the power section before the OT exactly for this very thing.

You could make a gig-ready cabless setup with a dummy load (just a bunch of resistors and a heat sink, noting fancy) and line converter into an IR box (AMT makes a nice one) and get a consistent sound with real power tube colour/drive. You could do a lot. It's not entirely without merit.

Read that to yourself a few times. Are you sure that's the purpose?

Slaving amps is a thing - no question there. But why do you do it? Let alone when/where. In 1968, sure - I see why it would be done. It adds an entire extra gain stage to amps that were fundamentally all high headroom (even the dirty ones).

And do not for a second think that going through ANY tone stack doesn't color the tone! The more I watch that vid, the more issues I have with a lot of the things that were said, or perhaps maybe the way they were presented.

Yes - Marshall + Fender, or Fender plus Marshall makes for an interesting sound I'm sure. But this was presented as "lowering your Mashall volume via slaving" and I do not think that's what happened, or certainly not all that happened.

 

[Aceman]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

You know what - as my triple latte sets in, maybe I use this as a great video for critical analysis.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Yeah. I did. So? I'm not okay right now.

I don't. If I did, I wouldn't run it through a tone stack. That's what power amps are for.

 

[LLL]

Re: How To: Slaving Amps

Speaking for myself, I much prefer amp drive to pedals. I don't have any neighbours to annoy. It's my-gain, or the hi.... gain. Both of those things.

Same here... although I do have some neighbors. If I need the full-blown cranked Marshall through speaker cab tone for tracking, I stick my cab in the bathroom with mics. :naughty: The neighbors are cool with that, and it's really not that loud outside.

My Fender has a balanced line out after the power section before the OT exactly for this very thing. You could make a gig-ready cabless setup with a dummy load (just a bunch of resistors and a heat sink, noting fancy) and line converter into an IR box (AMT makes a nice one) and get a consistent sound with real power tube colour/drive. You could do a lot. It's not entirely without merit.

Awesome - you get it; you understand. And yeah the iR thing is great too; last clip I did (Sabbath's Heaven And Hell) is a slaved Marshall with iRs in the DAW.

(Some people can't grasp advanced concepts even though they act all... "advanced"; as the concept goes flying over their heads, they throw rocks at it because it confuses them immensely)

Slaving is the multi-purpose miracle "tool" (concept) for guitarists. With slaving, you can a number of things:

- add FX (especially those pesky time-based ones that turn to mush in front of amp) after the entire amp; just like having a studio console with your rig. Some amps don't even have FX loops (mine for ex.). You get crystal-clear delay repeats and reverb, etc.

- get fully cranked tube amp tone at any volume with absolutely no attenuator mush or thin, buzzy "master volume on 1" bedroom tone or crappy "I get all my clipping and compression from my RAT distortion box!" tone

- combine two amps (the tone stack thing) for more gain and/or for a more unique sound with the benefits of the above... EQ wisely or slap an EQ between amps

- take a quieter amp whose tone you love (small combo for ex) and make it LOUD

- other benefits (WDW setup, stage monitoring etc)

Here's an example of a highly portable slave rig setup I use for small gigs where I want all of my Marshall's tone (fully cranked), crystal clear delay repeats and/or reverb wash, without busting the audiences' collective eardrums with super high decibel levels:


guitar
|
Marshall
(speaker out 1) -> HotPlate set to "Load"
(speaker out 2)
|
Suhr ISO Load Box
|
FX (delay, EQ, whatever stompboxes)
|
EHX .44 Caliber (stompbox sized power amp)
|
speaker cab


Anyhoo, like I said: I need to make a new updated vid and add all the extras you can do with slaving.