HSS advice for beginner

[Inflames626]

Hi everyone,
So I'm building my first proper passive HSS guitar. My experience thus far is I have an EMG 81/S/SA with EXG control wired in 18 volts in a Jackson Dinky that I built maybe 20+ years ago. I will probably swap the SA and S out for some SAVs at some point. The SA in particular sounds fine but more like a lower powered humbucker than a vintage Strat. The 81 with the EXG fully engaged sounds great distorted in DGCFAD tuning.

A few questions:

1) I think I will dislike RWRP because I find hum canceling in general gets rid of some of the highs and presence to my ears. I would rather use a noise gate set very conservatively to deal with hum. I mostly record so this will be a blessing and a curse--less electromagnetic interference from live sound equipment but possibly more from computers and recording equipment.

So, I think I will take a path similar to the Hendrix set and do it truly vintage--no RWRP. The noise and the lo fi quality of true singles add to the charm of the sound as long as the noise isn't excessive, IMO.

Assuming I buy individual single coil pickups of the same model that aren't in the same set, is there anything I should be mindful of? I plan to check the resistance to make sure the slightly hotter single coil gets the middle position assuming there is a small difference in output.

2) Is it a thing to put a bridge single coil in the middle if you have a hot humbucker so you are "stacking up" output wise toward the bridge?

I thought that vintage pickup sets generally came with a low output neck, slightly hotter middle, and a hotter still bridge pickup in a calibrated set. But based on the SSL-2's page, assuming you aren't buying RWRP, it looks like it would just be the same pickup in all positions.

It will be a trial and error challenge figuring out exactly what I like in terms of singles. I will probably require a few HSS guitars to capture all the variations, or maybe even to have different magnet types in the same guitar in different positions like I did with the SA/S. Sometimes highs are too piercing for a given application. Sometimes you need more cut. It gets complicated.

So I will probably be starting with the SSL-2s and going from there.

3) I wanted to confirm that with singles of the same model and the same set the neck and middle are the same pickup when RWRP isn't desired instead of being a calibrated neck and middle set.

Thanks.

 

[jeremy]

1) I think I will dislike RWRP because I find hum canceling in general gets rid of some of the highs and presence to my ears. I would rather use a noise gate set very conservatively to deal with hum. I mostly record so this will be a blessing and a curse--less electromagnetic interference from live sound equipment but possibly more from computers and recording equipment.

So, I think I will take a path similar to the Hendrix set and do it truly vintage--no RWRP. The noise and the lo fi quality of true singles add to the charm of the sound as long as the noise isn't excessive, IMO.

Assuming I buy individual single coil pickups of the same model that aren't in the same set, is there anything I should be mindful of? I plan to check the resistance to make sure the slightly hotter single coil gets the middle position assuming there is a small difference in output.

ive done two of the same with hss before too and it was fine, other than not humcancelling. i do think i hear a slight difference between having a rw/rp pup and not but hard to say since the heights arent the same

2) Is it a thing to put a bridge single coil in the middle if you have a hot humbucker so you are "stacking up" output wise toward the bridge?

I thought that vintage pickup sets generally came with a low output neck, slightly hotter middle, and a hotter still bridge pickup in a calibrated set. But based on the SSL-2's page, assuming you aren't buying RWRP, it looks like it would just be the same pickup in all positions.

It will be a trial and error challenge figuring out exactly what I like in terms of singles. I will probably require a few HSS guitars to capture all the variations, or maybe even to have different magnet types in the same guitar in different positions like I did with the SA/S. Sometimes highs are too piercing for a given application. Sometimes you need more cut. It gets complicated.

So I will probably be starting with the SSL-2s and going from there.

people do it so i guess its a thing. depends on what you want from the different positions. as far as calibrated sets, duncan doesnt really do those the way that some companies do. all the ssl1 or ssl5 or ssl3 models are wound similar

3) I wanted to confirm that with singles of the same model and the same set the neck and middle are the same pickup when RWRP isn't desired instead of being a calibrated neck and middle set.

Thanks.

yes. back in the old days a fender strat pup was a fender strat pup. they would grab three pups and put em in. similar wind, same magnetic orientation. so the ssl1 for example would be the same. similar wind, same magnetic orientation. to do the same thing youd buy three ssl1 (two in your case) "neck" pups.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

^Ehat he said.

Then put a 59/Custom Hybrid trembucker in the bridge. YMMV but that's what I did to my MIM HSS and it sounds great.

If you coil split the humbucker to the north (slug) coil you'll get hum canceling in P2 by default as SD single coils are normally "souths".

The logical extension of this is to put a RWRP in the neck not the middle, and you'll get hum canceling in P4 as well.

From what I've found, RWRP singles sound just fine, but some noiseless "single" coils (which actually have two coils and as such are sort-of halfway to humbuckers) can sound a little less spanky.

 

[AlexR]

The main issue with HSS people find are the volume differences between the humbucker and the singles - so you either need a fairly low powered humbucker or a punchy singlecoil if you want to avoid that. The second issue is the control values - as humbuckers and singles like different values typically.

 

[jeremy]

ive setup a few hss strats with good matches. pgb, ssl2, ssl2 with 250k volume, 250k tone for singles and 500k or 1meg for the bridge tone. cant remember which i settled on but liked em both. sh2n in the bridge (jazz neck), aps2 middle, 5/2 neck with 250k all around.

are you planning on using a hot bridge bucker?

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

What people said about the tones. You can wire the first tone to control the middle and neck, the second for the bridge humbucker. Not only different value pots, but a 0.022 uF cap for the single coils, a 0.047 uF cap for the humbucker.

If you use a 5-way superswitch you can also wire it to auto coil split in P2. The Fender wiring splits leaving the south coil active, giving hum canceling with a Fender "north" single coil middle. For SD pickups you should coli split leaving the north coil active to give hum canceling with SD single coils, which are normally "souths".

 

[Inflames626]

ive setup a few hss strats with good matches. pgb, ssl2, ssl2 with 250k volume, 250k tone for singles and 500k or 1meg for the bridge tone. cant remember which i settled on but liked em both. sh2n in the bridge (jazz neck), aps2 middle, 5/2 neck with 250k all around.

are you planning on using a hot bridge bucker?

Moderate output--10-14k. I'm planning on using a Jason Becker with SSL-2s as a starting point. I will probably get some variation of all the singles and swap them as needed. This will be a recording guitar so a drop in volume between the bridge and singles won't be a huge issue.

I will probably put this in a Dinky, most of which I think have 2 knobs instead of 3. I will probably wire the tone knob just to go to the singles. I rarely use a tone knob as I dislike its lack of precision in finding the exact same tone again if it is moved. For me at best tone knobs make a too bright neck pickup warmer in a humbucker guitar, but for Strats they add a lot more tonally flexibility. I think tone pots are more of a live thing for people like Yngwie who like to change sounds switch pickups often during a performance. I'm much more set it and forget it.

I have used a discontinued Seymour Duncan STK-S1 in the middle position of my Jackson DK2s. I wired it to split and generally like the tone better with the noise. I dislike stacked hum cancelling designs as I think they kill some of the highs, presence, and dynamics. It ends up sounding like my EMG SA/S. Something like a Lace Sensor Gold is a better option for noiseless vintage tone to my ears.

Regarding ThreeChordWonder 's comment, I had forgotten about the .022 and .047 difference. Thanks for the reminder. Usually I just use whatever ceramic cap comes in most import guitars.

I wired up a BC Rich Warlock NJ dual P bass Les Paul style with a 250k volume and tone to each pickup. I made the mistake of using .1 uf orange drop caps and recorded with the tone control fully engaged for a more vintage tone. The tone of the bass by itself was great but when mixing I had to do a lot to get rid of the mud.

 

[Artie]

I think I will dislike RWRP because I find hum canceling in general gets rid of some of the highs and presence to my ears.

I do think i hear a slight difference between having a rw/rp pup and not but hard to say since the heights arent the same

This is interesting. RWRP should have no tonal impact on a pup. But if you all hear it, it must be so.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Just remember, when you solder in a RWRP pickup, all the hard work has already been done for you. The white or yellow is still the hot, and should be soldered in as the hot, and the black is still the ground.

 

[jeremy]

Moderate output--10-14k. I'm planning on using a Jason Becker with SSL-2s as a starting point. I will probably get some variation of all the singles and swap them as needed. This will be a recording guitar so a drop in volume between the bridge and singles won't be a huge issue.

I will probably put this in a Dinky, most of which I think have 2 knobs instead of 3. I will probably wire the tone knob just to go to the singles. I rarely use a tone knob as I dislike its lack of precision in finding the exact same tone again if it is moved. For me at best tone knobs make a too bright neck pickup warmer in a humbucker guitar, but for Strats they add a lot more tonally flexibility. I think tone pots are more of a live thing for people like Yngwie who like to change sounds switch pickups often during a performance. I'm much more set it and forget it.

I have used a discontinued Seymour Duncan STK-S1 in the middle position of my Jackson DK2s. I wired it to split and generally like the tone better with the noise. I dislike stacked hum cancelling designs as I think they kill some of the highs, presence, and dynamics. It ends up sounding like my EMG SA/S. Something like a Lace Sensor Gold is a better option for noiseless vintage tone to my ears.

Regarding ThreeChordWonder 's comment, I had forgotten about the .022 and .047 difference. Thanks for the reminder. Usually I just use whatever ceramic cap comes in most import guitars.

I wired up a BC Rich Warlock NJ dual P bass Les Paul style with a 250k volume and tone to each pickup. I made the mistake of using .1 uf orange drop caps and recorded with the tone control fully engaged for a more vintage tone. The tone of the bass by itself was great but when mixing I had to do a lot to get rid of the mud.

i think the ssl2 with the pb might be a great setup. i dont have any experience with the pb but i think it should match up well.

the stks1 is a fine stack but its the old school stack design, which has a certain sound. the newer designs like the stks4 are much more single coil like.

 

[GuitarStv]

What people said about the tones. You can wire the first tone to control the middle and neck, the second for the bridge humbucker. Not only different value pots, but a 0.022 uF cap for the single coils, a 0.047 uF cap for the humbucker.

FWIW, I'd try a smaller cap on the bridge than on the neck. Usually I want the bridge to be bright, but like to roll off a tiny bit of treble - something like a .022 or even a .015 cap will roll off the piercing part without making it muddy and gives you more usable range on the tone control. A .033 or .022 sounds great on the neck most of the time.

This is interesting. RWRP should have no tonal impact on a pup. But if you all hear it, it must be so.

I can't hear any difference between RWRP and standard wind myself, but have heard many people say it's a thing.

 

[Artie]

I can't hear any difference between RWRP and standard wind myself, but have heard many people say it's a thing.

Me too.

 

[jeremy]

i cant hear the difference between the pups themselves but i think i hear a difference with two pups on, again, it could just be the heights are slightly different

 

[Mincer]

I can't hear any difference between RWRP and standard wind myself, but have heard many people say it's a thing.

Honestly, I can't either.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

i cant hear the difference between the pups themselves but i think i hear a difference with two pups on, again, it could just be the heights are slightly different

It makes sense that there would only be a difference when both are on, not with each running alone.
They are out of phase, after all - that's how the hum gets bucked - and about two inches apart.
I can see how reverse polarity might not eliminate 100% of the phase effect.

 

[Artie]

It makes sense that there would only be a difference when both are on, not with each running alone.
They are out of phase, after all - that's how the hum gets bucked - and about two inches apart.
I can see how reverse polarity might not eliminate 100% of the phase effect.

This is a common misconception. They are NOT out-of-phase. (Or reverse polarity.) It's RW, (reverse wound.) That reverses it's polarity. Then its RP. Reverse magnet polarity. That brings it back in phase again. It's the RW that makes it humcancelling. A humbucker, on the other hand, is wound the same direction, then connected internally reverse polarity.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

This is a common misconception. They are NOT out-of-phase. (Or reverse polarity.) It's RW, (reverse wound.) That reverses it's polarity. Then its RP. Reverse magnet polarity. That brings it back in phase again. It's the RW that makes it humcancelling. A humbucker, on the other hand, is wound the same direction, then connected internally reverse polarity.

A humbucker can be reverse wound then wired up the same way, or it can be wound the same way and the wiring reversed. The important thing is that the sense of the winding is reversed vis-a-vis what happens to the phase of the induced alternating current.

Most manufacturers, however, I suspect, wind them the same way but simply swap around the colors of the external wire insulation, because their machines are set up to spin in just one direction.

 

[Artie]

A humbucker can be reverse wound then wired up the same way, or it can be wound the same way and the wiring reversed. The important thing is that the sense of the winding is reversed vis-a-vis what happens to the phase of the induced alternating current.

Most manufacturers, however, I suspect, wind them the same way but simply swap around the colors of the external wire insulation, because their machines are set up to spin in just one direction.

Yup. Exactly.

 

[Wound_Up]

The main issue with HSS people find are the volume differences between the humbucker and the singles - so you either need a fairly low powered humbucker or a punchy singlecoil if you want to avoid that. The second issue is the control values - as humbuckers and singles like different values typically.

Pot values are a non issue. Just use 500k and be done with it. You can, always take highs away from the single coil. You don't have to ride the tone wide open. But then there's those of us who literally always leave their tone knobs on 10 and never touch them. Those are the folks that need to learn how to turn their knob lol because hums and singles in the same guitar is a non-issue.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

The other point is, of course, that some would say buying (or building) an HSS is precisely because of the extra punch from the bridge humbucker.

Easy enough too, to either fit a push-pull or DPDT switch to coil split the humbucker manually, or, sat, a superswitch or other clever wring to auto split the humbucker in P2.