HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

rainsong86

rainsong86

New member
Can bridge+middle be hum-cancelling even if the middle pickup is not RWRP. I'm working with a Dimarzio (single size) rail humbucker and this diagram:

20200508_195259.jpg

If it can't be done (without opening up a pickup and modifying it) then how do I wire this up so that it splits to the rail closest to the neck? Is "bridge series link" black/white, "bridge+" is red, and ground the bare and green?

Screenshot_20200508-184358_Gallery.jpg
 
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Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

rainsong86 said:
Can bridge+middle be hum-cancelling even if the middle pickup is not RWRP. I'm working with a Dimarzio (single size) rail humbucker and this diagram:

If it can't be done (without opening up a pickup and modifying it) then how do I wire this up so that it splits to the rail closest to the neck? Is "bridge series link" black/white, "bridge+" is red, and ground the bare and green?
Click to expand...
You are right about the humbucker connections for the Dimarzio. That is the normal way to connect it and will work with the diagram to give the rail closest to the neck on your diagram, as you wanted.
Which single coils are you using? If they are Fender you may need to reverse the connection polarity of the single coil p/u so they operate in-phase with the humbucker.
The singles don't need to be RW/RP to achieve hum cancelling in bridge+middle. As long as the middle pickup has south-up magnetic polarity it will work.
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

Teleplayer said:
You are right about the humbucker connections for the Dimarzio. That is the normal way to connect it and will work with the diagram to give the rail closest to the neck on your diagram, as you wanted.
Which single coils are you using? If they are Fender you may need to reverse the connection polarity of the single coil p/u so they operate in-phase with the humbucker.
The singles don't need to be RW/RP to achieve hum cancelling in bridge+middle. As long as the middle pickup has south-up magnetic polarity it will work.
Click to expand...

Seconding Teleplayer's good input, and curiousity about make and model of the singlecoils you are using?
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

They are fender custom shop 69's. They are supposed to be very traditional.. grey bobbins, no RWRP and they're the ones signed by that Abigail Y. pickup winder.

And yes I did had to switch the positive and ground. At first everything worked great but bridge+middle was out of phase (interesting tone but a huge drop in volume). I switched the red and green wires and it works great, except no hum-cancelling. The only position that's hum-cancelling now is position 1. What could I have done with these 3 pickups outside of modifying them to get more hum-cancelling positions (especially position 2)
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

When you swapped the red and green wires on the dimarzio, it changed the sequence of the humbucker coils. Now the north pole (Red/black wires) is wired on the ground side, and the South pole (White/green wires) is wired to the input selector. When the "Bridge series link" on your diagram gets switched to ground, you are now getting the South pole, which is the coil closest to the bridge. The South coil of the humbucker will NOT be able to cancel hum against the CS69, as you have noticed. CS69 have South-up magnetic polarity. For the bridge+middle to cancel hum you need to use the humbucker coil closest to the neck which is the North coil.

The most straight forward solution is to change the Dimarzio back to the wiring you wrote in your first post with Red to the switch, green+bare to ground. Then REVERSE the Connection polarity of the CS69 pickups instead.
 
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Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

Teleplayer said:
.. the most straight forward solution is to change the Dimarzio back to the wiring you wrote in your first post with Red to the switch, green+bare to ground. Then REVERSE the polarity of the CS69 pickups instead.
Click to expand...

By "reverse the polarity of the cs69" you mean swap the two wires on that pickup right? That should be sufficient. And that is what i understood your original advice to be.
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

Is it just me or do the H/S and "in between" S/S tones sound like junk? There's probably no famous guitar solo, for example, that utilized that pickup configuration.
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

esandes said:
Is it just me or do the H/S and "in between" S/S tones sound like junk? There's probably no famous guitar solo, for example, that utilized that pickup configuration.
Click to expand...

The Dimarzio blade pickup such as Chopper isn't bad with a coil-split in bridge. Without the coil-split, the Chopper already sounds decent for the "2 position". If you get a pickup with the right specs it can work in the bridge. I had more trouble getting a good split tone that is usable in the neck position because a lot of the options either lack brightness or output. The "2 position" on the HSS, allows you to play some country tunes or something that quacks like Mark Knopfler's finger style. For artists who are going to perform a hit record, they will probably have a Tele or Strat that is dedicated to the purpose, so that may be part of the reason for your observation. Mark Knopfler had some nice HSS guitars made by Pensa-Suhr in the 80's, but they had EMGs which isn't quite the same thing.
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

Thanks teleplayer. Yea I just checked it and it's splitting to the coil closest to bridge as you say. So I can change the red/green back to my original diagram and simply swap where I soldered the + and - for the single pups if I want hum-cancelling 2nd position. One interesting thing about the diagram was that the mid/neck tone pot doesn't work for the 2nd position.. intentional?
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

Whether you like to have a tone control for the 2nd position really depends on your usage and the specific pickup you are using. For most of them, it would make sense to use a 500k tone control shared with the bridge. I would try that first and see if you like it.

HSS wiring for CS69 tone wiring.jpg
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

Teleplayer said:
Whether you like to have a tone control for the 2nd position really depends on your usage and the specific pickup you are using. For most of them, it would make sense to use a 500k tone control shared with the bridge. I would try that first and see if you like it.

View attachment 104773
Click to expand...

So with that diagram I get the 500k tone pot for pos 1,2 and the 250k tone pot for pos 3,4,5 and it won't mess with the function of the 470k resistors in the super-switch?

I don't understand why in the original diagram the 250k tone pot isn't in the circuit for the 2nd position
 
Re: HSS and non-RWRP middle pup

No it won't affect the 470k resistors. It effectively means you have 500k tone control and 250k volume control, for position 2.
In Summary.

Pos 1: 500k Vol, 500k Tone.
Pos 2: 250k Vol, 500k Tone.
Pos 3: 250k Vol, 250k Tone.
Pos 4: 250k Vol, 250k Tone.
Pos 5: 250k Vol, 250k Tone.

Really you can solder either tone control to Pos 2. There is not any hard rules about what is Right vs Wrong. If you want the 250k Tone from positions 2 to 5, you can solder a small piece of wire across 4 lugs across from the neck tone pot, instead of the 3 lugs in green on my version of the diagram. The scan in post #1 of original diagram has poor contrast, and I can't actually see what the designer intended.
 
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