Humbucker for splitting to Tele sound

[sumitagarwal]

Straight forward question: which humbucker sounds the most like a Tele bridge pickup when you split it?

And yes, I know that part of the sound is the Tele bridge and saddles and so on. Assuming apples to apples hardware and wood, just asking about the pickups.

 

[beaubrummels]

Not split, but a Custom Custom in parallel sounds like a Tele bridge.

 

[Mincer]

The most single coil-ish split sound is the Stag Mag. More Stratty than Tele, but absolutely single coil-y.

 

[zionstrat]

The most single coil-ish split sound is the Stag Mag. More Stratty than Tele, but absolutely single coil-y.

Mincer can you provide a little more detail... I've never used the stag mag.

To my ears, a strat bridge is often kind of useless.. a bit anemic and without the flavor of the rest of the strat.. which is why I generaly prefer a tele bridge..

With that said, does the split coil on the stag mag have plenty of "character" or could it be confused with the standard strat bridge?

​​​​​​​Of course this is extremely subjective so no worries either way..

 

[Mincer]

Well, it tends to sound like wherever you put it. So, yeah, it would sound like a Strat bridge if that's where you put it. It replicates that sound perfectly.

 

[sumitagarwal]

Well, it tends to sound like wherever you put it. So, yeah, it would sound like a Strat bridge if that's where you put it. It replicates that sound perfectly.

Not currently having a Tele in the collection, and finding some wonkiness in trying to compare photos, I wanted to check that the Tele bridge pickup is actually in the same location (relative to the saddles) that the Strat pickup is. It looks like it is, but am I wrong?

 

[freefrog]

Not currently having a Tele in the collection, and finding some wonkiness in trying to compare photos, I wanted to check that the Tele bridge pickup is actually in the same location (relative to the saddles) that the Strat pickup is. It looks like it is, but am I wrong?

There's a more pronounced angle on Tele's. Something like 15° vs 10° for Strat pickups.

Regarding some other differences, here is an interesting link:

https://ironstone-guitar-pickups.co.uk/stratocaster-telecaster-comparison/

 

[sumitagarwal]

There's a more pronounced angle on Tele's. Something like 15° vs 10° for Strat pickups.

Regarding some other differences, here is an interesting link:

https://ironstone-guitar-pickups.co.uk/stratocaster-telecaster-comparison/

Definitely is interesting!

Some additional thoughts:

• Part of the Tele bridge sound is all the extra metal around the pickup. In the case of a split humbucker, might all the metal of the unused coil add some similar impact?
• There's mention about the bridge pickup sitting on springs, which is the typical humbucker mounting ring setup

 

[beaubrummels]

Mincer can you provide a little more detail... I've never used the stag mag.

To my ears, a strat bridge is often kind of useless.. a bit anemic and without the flavor of the rest of the strat.. which is why I generaly prefer a tele bridge..

With that said, does the split coil on the stag mag have plenty of "character" or could it be confused with the standard strat bridge?

​​​​​​​Of course this is extremely subjective so no worries either way..

If you use the default Duncan 'split-to-slug' kind of wiring on a StagMag, you get the coil further from the bridge, so it sounds nicely Fendery but not harsh or thin like a Strat. The other thing to consider is a Strat has no tone on the bridge, which is part of why it sounds thin and harsh. With a StagMag humbucker and a typical humbucker tone control on it, it sounds nice and smooth. Actually sounds nice split to either coil. A little closer in sound to a Jaguar or P90 guitar split to the 'screw' or bridge side coil IME. It will be weaker/lower output, so it might not be what you want. But I found it useful (for like clean punk chord intros before slamming it to full humbucker and distortion on.)

 

[Mincer]

If you use the default Duncan 'split-to-slug' kind of wiring on a StagMag, you get the coil further from the bridge, so it sounds nicely Fendery but not harsh or thin like a Strat. The other thing to consider is a Strat has no tone on the bridge, which is part of why it sounds thin and harsh. With a StagMag humbucker and a typical humbucker tone control on it, it sounds nice and smooth. Actually sounds nice split to either coil. A little closer in sound to a Jaguar or P90 guitar split to the 'screw' or bridge side coil IME. It will be weaker/lower output, so it might not be what you want. But I found it useful (for like clean punk chord intros before slamming it to full humbucker and distortion on.)

I will agree with all of this.

 

[Clint 55]

I think the JB sounds tele-ish when split.

 

[freefrog]

Definitely is interesting!

Some additional thoughts:

• Part of the Tele bridge sound is all the extra metal around the pickup. In the case of a split humbucker, might all the metal of the unused coil add some similar impact?
• There's mention about the bridge pickup sitting on springs, which is the typical humbucker mounting ring setup

My wordy albeit indifferent thoughts are...

1-that magnetic circuits with Foucault / eddy currents effectively make Tele bridge SC's closer to humbuckers than Strat PU's. Along with the tone pot mentioned by Beau', it contributes in my understanding to the lower Q factor (less focused / wider resonant peaks) that I've noticed with Tele bridge transducers compared to Strat ones.
Now, there's still noticeable differences shown in a page that I've already evoked (compare the pic just above "telecaster pickup with baseplate​" and all those about humbuckers, starting at "humbucker w/ A5"):

https://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/Images/pickups/Pickup stuff/Magnetics.htm

2-The Tele that I've currently here has rubber tubes instead of springs to set the height of its bridge transducer and it still sounds super Tele twangy. So, to me, the sonic influence of springs is not a key factor if we forget their tendency to favor microphonic squealing in Tele's.
Something more decisive IMHO is how their whole structure with BP contributes to the higher inductance of Tele bridge PU's: in mine, the 7.5k PU measures a whooping 4H ( = the same than a P.A.F. clone and practically twice more than a Fender CS69 for Strat).
Most of those evoked in my archived data measure over 3 or 3.5H.
With that in mind, it might be interesting to split a powerful humbucker when it comes to emulate a Tele, while the same humbucker would sound more "stratty" in parallel... Splitting a +/- 8H model (like the JB mentioned by Clint55) should give a 4H single coil. Putting it in parallel should give 2H of inductance and therefore a higher pitched resonance / a thinner "Stratier" sound...

FWIW: just some ideas to chew.

Beside all this and as implied by Beau' above, the position / angle of bridge PU's have a not negligible effect on tone IME / IMHO: I've here a "special" Strat whose bridge SC is parallel to the bridge and it doesn't sound like my other Strats. Not sure my Tele would sound like itself either if its PU was like in a Jaguar. YMMV.

 

[orpheo]

I'd go with a JB for sure. The JB was originally designed to be like a tele bridge pickup, but noiseless and hotter. The whole technology of rail-SC humbuckers, stacked, etc, didn't exist when Seymour made the JB (and jazz).

 

[orpheo]

The Stagmag is a horrible pickup imho. I truly dislike that tone. It's not the airy, flutey stratty tone one might expect, nor the fluid, liquid, clear neck humbucker, or even bright, cutting, crunchy bridge humbucker one might expect. It's neither.

Ironically, if you remove the magnetic slugs, use regular slugs and a bar magnet, you get a pickup that's a billion times more useful. Something more in line with the JB or Distortion (but with the highs rolled off a bit because the slugs induce more than the screws).

A Fullshred/Stagmag hybrid will thus be an excellent humbucker.

Just saying.

 

[ToneFiddler]

The Stagmag is a horrible pickup imho. I truly dislike that tone. It's not the airy, flutey stratty tone one might expect, nor the fluid, liquid, clear neck humbucker, or even bright, cutting, crunchy bridge humbucker one might expect. It's neither.

Ironically, if you remove the magnetic slugs, use regular slugs and a bar magnet, you get a pickup that's a billion times more useful. Something more in line with the JB or Distortion (but with the highs rolled off a bit because the slugs induce more than the screws).

A Fullshred/Stagmag hybrid will thus be an excellent humbucker.

Just saying.

Ah, another PU candidate where Duncan might have reused existing coils.
Makes perfect sense from a manufacturing point of view.

Rio Grande makes some crazy PUs like the Vintage Tallboy Twangbucker. No clue if it's any good.

 

[sumitagarwal]

My wordy albeit indifferent thoughts are...

1-that magnetic circuits with Foucault / eddy currents effectively make Tele bridge SC's closer to humbuckers than Strat PU's. Along with the tone pot mentioned by Beau', it contributes in my understanding to the lower Q factor (less focused / wider resonant peaks) that I've noticed with Tele bridge transducers compared to Strat ones.
Now, there's still noticeable differences shown in a page that I've already evoked (compare the pic just above "telecaster pickup with baseplate​" and all those about humbuckers, starting at "humbucker w/ A5"):

https://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/Images/pickups/Pickup stuff/Magnetics.htm

2-The Tele that I've currently here has rubber tubes instead of springs to set the height of its bridge transducer and it still sounds super Tele twangy. So, to me, the sonic influence of springs is not a key factor if we forget their tendency to favor microphonic squealing in Tele's.
Something more decisive IMHO is how their whole structure with BP contributes to the higher inductance of Tele bridge PU's: in mine, the 7.5k PU measures a whooping 4H ( = the same than a P.A.F. clone and practically twice more than a Fender CS69 for Strat).
Most of those evoked in my archived data measure over 3 or 3.5H.
With that in mind, it might be interesting to split a powerful humbucker when it comes to emulate a Tele, while the same humbucker would sound more "stratty" in parallel... Splitting a +/- 8H model (like the JB mentioned by Clint55) should give a 4H single coil. Putting it in parallel should give 2H of inductance and therefore a higher pitched resonance / a thinner "Stratier" sound...

FWIW: just some ideas to chew.

Beside all this and as implied by Beau' above, the position / angle of bridge PU's have a not negligible effect on tone IME / IMHO: I've here a "special" Strat whose bridge SC is parallel to the bridge and it doesn't sound like my other Strats. Not sure my Tele would sound like itself either if its PU was like in a Jaguar. YMMV.

This really backs up the adage that a good bridge PAF is like "a Tele on roids", because there is quite a bit of commonality.

I've been thinking there's a lot of opportunity for some good takes on classic sounds with the right HH setup.

Looking at what PRS is doing with their TCI pickups (apparently same wind for neck and bridge) and looking more at the math for parallel coils I'm convinced that a major component of the Strat notch tone hinges on the coils being equal inductance. In parallel if there is any imbalance the stronger coil very rapidly becomes dominant, more than in series. Conversely I think that inductance imbalance is a big part of the Tele middle sound, with a weak neck pickup and a strong bridge pickup, which makes it twangier and brighter than a typical middle position.

Putting it all back together with an HH setup that suggests going with a hot equal-wind pickup in the bridge with a neck pickup that has one of the same coils for the inner coil and a weaker coil for the outer coil.

That would give us, for something like a C5 in the bridge + C5/59 in the neck:

Tele neck tone: neck 59 outer coil
Strat notch tone: neck C5 inner coil + bridge C5 inner coil
Tele bridge tone: bridge C5 inner coil
Tele middle tone: neck 59 outer coil + bridge C5 outer coil

Plus you get your usual humbucker tones with an atypically articulate neck humbucker tone, and you get a neck inner coil single tone that's somewhere between a Strat neck pickup and a Strat middle pickup (closer to neck pickup).

 

[orpheo]

Ah, another PU candidate where Duncan might have reused existing coils.
Makes perfect sense from a manufacturing point of view.

Rio Grande makes some crazy PUs like the Vintage Tallboy Twangbucker. No clue if it's any good.

My hypothesis indeed, but I know that it isn't true.

JB =/= Distortion or Black winter or stagmag or invader, but any of the other four may indeed share coils.

Dist may be invader may be stagmag, but that's just flinging stuff in the air and seeing what lands. No idea. but I do know that JB is not the others.

 

[GuitarDoc]

I think the JB sounds tele-ish when split.

No, not really. In fact, not even close.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Stag Mag for the win.
I've got several Stag Mags and two of them are mounted in Tele bridge plates (cut out for a humbucker). It sounds great in series, split, and parallel...very Teleish, especially split.

 

[GuitarDoc]

The Stagmag is a horrible pickup imho. I truly dislike that tone. It's not the airy, flutey stratty tone one might expect, nor the fluid, liquid, clear neck humbucker, or even bright, cutting, crunchy bridge humbucker one might expect. It's neither.

Ironically, if you remove the magnetic slugs, use regular slugs and a bar magnet, you get a pickup that's a billion times more useful. Something more in line with the JB or Distortion (but with the highs rolled off a bit because the slugs induce more than the screws).

A Fullshred/Stagmag hybrid will thus be an excellent humbucker.

Just saying.

I usually like and agree with orpheo, but this post is just WAY off the mark. Certainly it's just his opinion, but ONLY his opinion and not based in any fact. (But then, my opinions are only my opinions as well).