humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

C

Clapton'sGreenChili

New member
hey, so i use an epiphone dot 335 style guitar with a fender super champ xd (btw, best amp for its price on the planet) and i want to get new pickups. i'm interested in the ones in the title, but each has their flaws. I was sold on the seth lovers but i'm terrified of the feedback and squeal that may come from a lack of wax potting (my dot already has some feedback issues), and 335's have a tendency to somewhat thin the tone of a humbucker and lovers are PAF's with a rather thin tone to begin with (or so i've heard on youtube). The fralins look great but they are the most expensive i can afford and i'm not sure that they're that much better or different than the seth lovers (are they wax potted?). The 59's look good but then again the low price and all this talk of scooped mids concerns me, are the mids really that scooped and do they sound duller than the seth lovers? are 59's thicker sounding than lovers? Please help me, reassure me, or tell me whats wrong with my opinions about each pickup...... thanks

note: i may buy a subdecay liquid sunshine pedal cause i like the tone, does anyone use this pedal with any of the mentioned pickups?

note: my ideal PAF tone is probably clapton bluesbreaker era "hideaway" or "steppin out", also cream "crossroads" and "sunshine of your love"
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

With how much gain and loud do you play? I had Seths in one and they were killer. But I'm a bedroom player so the feedback was no biggie. WCR Crossroads are another choice, but more expensive.
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

I have Seths in chambered Les Paul Supreme, and I usually play it through a Mesa Boogie Mark IV 112 EVM combo on top of a Mesa 112 EVM Theile cab. Now, we don't play super loud and I don't use tremendous amounts of gain, but I've not had a problem with feedback with this guitar. When I have induced feedback, it has been musical and controllable.

Good Luck!

Bill
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

As a guy who owns a few Epi and other 335's, I can assure you, they do not have a thin tone, despite what any self-professed expert on YouTube may say. They're known for a warm, full tone (even when made of maple), which is why blues and jazz players took to them immediately. It is the design for great tones.

With PAF PU's, my preference is a set of '59's. Their A5 magnets have a sparkle to them, they cut thru nicely, have a firm low end & high output. For the neck PU, I use 500K pots (volume & tone) for clarity & definition; in the bridge 250K's for the added warmth. 250K's bleed some treble to ground and make the mids more prominent, so you get away from that scooped sound. I don't know myself, but I believe guys here have said Clapton's 335 probably had A5 PAF's.

Some guys like A2's, which are in Seth's, PG's, and several Gibson PAF's. The reasons I don't like them is that they're strong on mids, which I don't need in the neck slot, they often sound thin in the bridge, they're low output, and are famous for a loose low end. Too many downsides for me.

Seeing that '59's are far more affordable and available, why not get a pair? If you drop the money into Seth's and aren't thrilled with them, that's a big financial problem. '59's are condidered to be one of the best PAF's made today.

If you want to get the late '60's British blues/rock sound (which is my favorite also), the SansAmp 'British' pedal gives a decent emulation of a 1960's Marshall thru a stack of Greenbacks, at a reasonable price. I love mine. Not just overdrive, but full-bodied tones too.
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

i got a jazz n / 59b in my epiphone sheraton, and its by far my favourite sounding guitar, (kicks my gibson lp and fender strats butt) crystal clear, good bass and definatly not thin sounding, and i can also get quite a lot of gain from the 59 which shocked me, as long as im not standing right in front of my stack lol, i really like the angus crunchy paf tone i can get but i can also crank up the gain and get heavy sabbathy type tones. really versitile combo that sounds better in a semi-hollow . check it out
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

but I've not had a problem with feedback with this guitar. When I have induced feedback, it has been musical and controllable.
Click to expand...

thats another thing i love about semi hollow bodies, no need for an ebow! lol
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

I would not be concerned with feedback from the Seth Lovers. I've never had any trouble with them feeding back - especially onstage. Don't believe all of the misinformed, inexperienced nonsense you read on the internet.

Tonequest has done tests comparing the Duncan Seth Lovers, Duncan Antiquitys and other paf style humbuckers from other manufacturers as well.

Tonequest commented that microphonic feedback was not an issue with the unpotted Seths and Antiquitys. All of the Gibson humbuckers from the 50's, 60's and 70's were unpotted and it's just not a problem unless you're playing at home, standing inches from your amp and facing your amp, with the gain or volume cranked. So don't do that.
It's bad for your ears anyway.

The pickups in Clapton's block inlay ES-335 are the stock early 60's patent number pickups that came with it and by the early 60's Gibson had switched from alnico 2 to alnico 5. The pickups in those days were matched: both are probably 8.1K alnico 5 unpotted humbuckers with covers. The closest pickup to that in the Duncan line would be a set of 8.2K 59B covered pickups.

But I've always thought an 8.2K neck humbucker was a bit woofy in the neck position and apparantly so do most players so Seymour underwinds the 59N to balance its output with the 59B. If you want 59's, go for a nickel covered set: 59N and 59B.

I prefer alnico 2 humbuckers because I like the thicker mids, smoother treble and fuller tone. In my ES-335 I have pickups made by Tom Holmes and they are unpotted, covered and similar to the alnico 2 Seth Lovers or alnico 2 Antiquity humbuckers.

You have to decide for yourself, of course. But I think the Seths, Antiquitys, Pearly Gates and EVH/78 are the best humbuckers Duncan makes. All are alnico 2 pickups.

Personally, I like covered pickups in a 335. It warms up the tone and gives a smoother tone. Most 335 players have covered pickups in their 335's.

So you need to decide for yourself what kind of tone you're after.

59's will have more bass, less mids, more treble and, IMO, more honk than Seths or Antiquitys and in a 335 will sound more like an early 60's 335.

Since i like alnico 2 Seths and Antiquitys for the sound of a '58 dot neck ES-335 much more than alnico 5 59's I'd go with Antiquitys or Seth Lovers.

If you can swing the Antiquitys, those would be my recommendation.
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

My preferance is a set of Seth's. I can't add anything more than what Lewguitar already said.
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

thanks for the help, i really apprecitate it, and btw when i said heard on youtube i ,
meant with my own ears
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

I have a set of '59s in my 335 copy and can't be bothered to change them to anything else... they sound absolutely superb.
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

oh, and one more thing, which are more consistent in tone from set to set, the lovers or the antiquitys, and which typically has the fatter sound (more bass)?
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

A pair of 59's are just MADE for a 335...
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

blueman335 said:
And this from a PG fanatic.
Click to expand...
I'm a pretty big PG fan myself and I completely agree with Aceman: '59s sound amazing in a semi-hollow. I've tried others but these are just what sounds best: balanced, right output, good definition etc... just my humble opinion though.
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

They even sound beautiful in my LP custom when the neck pick-up's adjusted just right to prevent the boominess that often occurs with this pick-up in solidbodied electrics... such an underrated pick-up...
 
Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

ganzosrevenge said:
I think this video, by marinblues (one of our own!) should answer this.

Seth Lovers at work
Click to expand...

Thanks for that!

Yep - that's the tone anybody with a brain for classy tone should be looking for from a 335.

Not that I don't love the tone Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson and Larry Carlton get from their alnico 5 pickups in their 60's ES-335's. I do!

I love that Clapton Es-335 tone and for that, assuming you can play like Clapton or Eric Johnson, and assuming that you have a vintage 100 watt Marshall stack and can crank it up, 59's would do the trick.

But for me, I stand by my recommedation: Seth Lovers or if you can swing it, Antiquitys.
 
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Re: humbuckers for a 335: 59, fralin, or lover

Lewguitar said:
Thanks for that!

Yep - that's the tone anybody with a brain for classy tone should be looking for from a 335.

Not that I don't love the tone Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson and Larry Carlton get from their alnico 5 pickups in their 60's ES-335's. I do!

I love that Clapton Es-335 tone and for that, assuming you can play like Clapton or Eric Johnson, and assuming that you have a vintage 100 watt Marshall stack and can crank it up, 59's would do the trick.

But for me, I stand by my recommedation: Seth Lovers or if you can swing it, Antiquitys.
Click to expand...

seths or ants for me. Something about them also makes me go :bling:. That video was the first one that came to mind, and I figured to give some of our own guys a bit of credit for "good tone". As for the clapton / EJ tones, it does help to have a monster stack you can crank up, and unfortunately most of us don't have the space for it (but we try to stuff a big amp in anyway :D). put in the Seths or the Ants, tweak to preference, and play.

Jason
 
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