PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
Why? That guitar is new, unique and kind of cool.
Why? That guitar is new, unique and kind of cool.
I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
- Thread starter Aceman
- Start date
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
devastone
Well-known member
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
I look at the listings, Mooer on the high end to Donner on the low(?) end, like less than 1/2 the price, and wonder, why do the prices vary so much when I'm about 98% sure they all roll off the same assembly line with different printing on them.
Interesting read here - http://www.angst.org.uk/?p=184
The Aroma line is a new one on me, they do appear have some differences in the case and overall look cheaper, so why not spend $10 more and get a real Donner?
I look at the listings, Mooer on the high end to Donner on the low(?) end, like less than 1/2 the price, and wonder, why do the prices vary so much when I'm about 98% sure they all roll off the same assembly line with different printing on them.
Interesting read here - http://www.angst.org.uk/?p=184
The Aroma line is a new one on me, they do appear have some differences in the case and overall look cheaper, so why not spend $10 more and get a real Donner?
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DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
If they're following responsible business practices, the "brand names" should have higher-grade components and perhaps more QC, while their in-house "generic" copies use whatever and have lower QC.
Or, maybe since the brand owner decides the selling price, and the manufacturer says "pfft, we can beat that price because we are the manufacturer and don't have the extra costs the Name Brand does". Maybe they also realize that they can sell a million for a dollar and still make a million dollars, while the Name Brand tries to make their million dollars by selling them for $100 each, and ends up holding stock.
But as micro-tech grows, it won't be too long (hopefully) before there's a module you place inside the guitar or clip to the strap that connects wirelessly to wireless pedals and you arrange their order with the smartphone app (with Voice Assist), and then integrates Song Recognition so it detects what song you're playing and what changes you've programmed into it and the various effects turn on and off at the precise moment according to your playing tempo.
Floor order won't matter, as the LCD readout on top will tell you what each one is set to. If there's one song where you want the Wah in the loop, it's moved to the loop. If there's one where you want the Wah in front, it moves it up front.
What I'd like to see in the interim is someone take a Line6 M-series board and make it so you can load in a custom set of pedal voices the original setup doesn't have. Circuit profiles or something. I'd like to see a PC app that does that as well: you load up the circuit for say a typical BOSS DS-1 and you can "swap out" components to alter the sound, even doing "impossible" things like adding a tube (or several). Make it a standalone tone app that you play your guitar through the interface like Amplitube and hear it through your monitors or whatnot. Save settings to the plug-in list and fire up your DAW, where your plug-in pedal awaits. Combined with the Line6 idea, you download it to the board and you have an electronic model of a tube-driven DS-1 in your board.
If they're following responsible business practices, the "brand names" should have higher-grade components and perhaps more QC, while their in-house "generic" copies use whatever and have lower QC.
Or, maybe since the brand owner decides the selling price, and the manufacturer says "pfft, we can beat that price because we are the manufacturer and don't have the extra costs the Name Brand does". Maybe they also realize that they can sell a million for a dollar and still make a million dollars, while the Name Brand tries to make their million dollars by selling them for $100 each, and ends up holding stock.
But as micro-tech grows, it won't be too long (hopefully) before there's a module you place inside the guitar or clip to the strap that connects wirelessly to wireless pedals and you arrange their order with the smartphone app (with Voice Assist), and then integrates Song Recognition so it detects what song you're playing and what changes you've programmed into it and the various effects turn on and off at the precise moment according to your playing tempo.
Floor order won't matter, as the LCD readout on top will tell you what each one is set to. If there's one song where you want the Wah in the loop, it's moved to the loop. If there's one where you want the Wah in front, it moves it up front.
What I'd like to see in the interim is someone take a Line6 M-series board and make it so you can load in a custom set of pedal voices the original setup doesn't have. Circuit profiles or something. I'd like to see a PC app that does that as well: you load up the circuit for say a typical BOSS DS-1 and you can "swap out" components to alter the sound, even doing "impossible" things like adding a tube (or several). Make it a standalone tone app that you play your guitar through the interface like Amplitube and hear it through your monitors or whatnot. Save settings to the plug-in list and fire up your DAW, where your plug-in pedal awaits. Combined with the Line6 idea, you download it to the board and you have an electronic model of a tube-driven DS-1 in your board.
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devastone
Well-known member
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
The boards are the same on the Donner and Mooer pedals, they aren't going to use different components. There isn't a "premium" JRC4558 (or whatever) and a low quality one. The QC in a PCB factory is all automated. The cost to make those pedals in quantity is probably on the order of $2 - $3 or less each.
FWIW, I do want one of those Moen JiBin Tai Chi overdrives, they just look too cool!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2015-JO...282385?hash=item20f7ea5291:g:ppsAAOSwZVlXtLrG
The boards are the same on the Donner and Mooer pedals, they aren't going to use different components. There isn't a "premium" JRC4558 (or whatever) and a low quality one. The QC in a PCB factory is all automated. The cost to make those pedals in quantity is probably on the order of $2 - $3 or less each.
FWIW, I do want one of those Moen JiBin Tai Chi overdrives, they just look too cool!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2015-JO...282385?hash=item20f7ea5291:g:ppsAAOSwZVlXtLrG
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
In that case it's a simple matter of competing at the price point. One values their brand name more than the other, and the other sees the logic in lower price = more sales.
In that case it's a simple matter of competing at the price point. One values their brand name more than the other, and the other sees the logic in lower price = more sales.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
Stimpy! You sick... little... monkey!
Stimpy! You sick... little... monkey!
PFDarkside
of the Forum
devastone
Well-known member
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
Do some googling on Mooer and Donner. There isn't a Donner pedal for every Mooer pedal, but the ones that do cross over seem to be the same.
http://www.angst.org.uk/?p=184
http://guitarefx.blogspot.com/2015/07/donner-clone-list.html
The thing is, if all of them, from Mooer to Donner to Rowin and Eno pedals are just clones using SMT technology to shrink them down, the quality and parts are all going to be pretty much identical. A micro clone of a TS is going to use an SMT 4558 opamp, a Rat clone is going to use a SMT LM308 unless they follow the new ones and use an OP07, etc... The processes and parts are all the same, nobody is building these micro SMT boards by hand. The SMT resistors and caps are all the same quality, I mean they are less that $0.01 each at the quantities these factories use them. The SMT chips and transistors are probably less than $0.05 each (probably 1/2 that or less). I haven't done it, but I would guess if you bought the same clone from each of these companies, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind folded playing test.
It does make it tough to compete with, the Tech21 British is ~$169 and the Joyo British clone is ~$40 or so, a Suhr Riot is $200 and the Donner Morpher is ~$30 (the Mooer version which is the same PCB is ~$80 - $90). Of course, for the most part, the Chinese companies don't come up with anything original, they will pretty much only copy something that's already been designed and is a proven winner. Since most pedal circuits aren't patent-able, really even boutique pedals are mostly variations on a few themes, especially distortion, OD, and fuzz, there is no way to stop them from being cloned.
FWIW, I've only owned one of those micro pedals, it was the Black Secret Rat clone, and honestly, it sounded every bit as good as my Rat 2, with more options, but if I need to throw a board together quick and cheap, for better or worse, I know where to look first.
*EDIT* I forgot, I had some of the cute little Hotone micro pedals too, the reverb, TS overdrive, and the Chunk distortion that was a Crunch Box clone, again, they all sounded great.
Do some googling on Mooer and Donner. There isn't a Donner pedal for every Mooer pedal, but the ones that do cross over seem to be the same.
http://www.angst.org.uk/?p=184
http://guitarefx.blogspot.com/2015/07/donner-clone-list.html
The thing is, if all of them, from Mooer to Donner to Rowin and Eno pedals are just clones using SMT technology to shrink them down, the quality and parts are all going to be pretty much identical. A micro clone of a TS is going to use an SMT 4558 opamp, a Rat clone is going to use a SMT LM308 unless they follow the new ones and use an OP07, etc... The processes and parts are all the same, nobody is building these micro SMT boards by hand. The SMT resistors and caps are all the same quality, I mean they are less that $0.01 each at the quantities these factories use them. The SMT chips and transistors are probably less than $0.05 each (probably 1/2 that or less). I haven't done it, but I would guess if you bought the same clone from each of these companies, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind folded playing test.
It does make it tough to compete with, the Tech21 British is ~$169 and the Joyo British clone is ~$40 or so, a Suhr Riot is $200 and the Donner Morpher is ~$30 (the Mooer version which is the same PCB is ~$80 - $90). Of course, for the most part, the Chinese companies don't come up with anything original, they will pretty much only copy something that's already been designed and is a proven winner. Since most pedal circuits aren't patent-able, really even boutique pedals are mostly variations on a few themes, especially distortion, OD, and fuzz, there is no way to stop them from being cloned.
FWIW, I've only owned one of those micro pedals, it was the Black Secret Rat clone, and honestly, it sounded every bit as good as my Rat 2, with more options, but if I need to throw a board together quick and cheap, for better or worse, I know where to look first.
*EDIT* I forgot, I had some of the cute little Hotone micro pedals too, the reverb, TS overdrive, and the Chunk distortion that was a Crunch Box clone, again, they all sounded great.
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astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
I've seen many of them for sale locally. I can't see someone plugging their Gibson byrdland into one...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've seen many of them for sale locally. I can't see someone plugging their Gibson byrdland into one...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
One has to consider the opportunity costs.
One has to consider the opportunity costs.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
I've never spent a second looking at any of them. Just like I don't look for dog food at dinner time, drive a tricycle, or collect bugs.
I've never spent a second looking at any of them. Just like I don't look for dog food at dinner time, drive a tricycle, or collect bugs.
cayle_6
New member
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
Mooer makes good mini pedals. Then there's Xotic with their SL Drive, EP Boost and SP Comp. Keeley has mini pedals as well. Ibanez is getting into the mini pedal game with their TS Mini, AD mini and SM mini.
I "tried" getting into the mini pedal craze with the EP Booster and Sonic Research ST300 Mini. Sold them off because I found them to be a bit unstable on the board, especially the ST300 which as very lightweight.
Mooer makes good mini pedals. Then there's Xotic with their SL Drive, EP Boost and SP Comp. Keeley has mini pedals as well. Ibanez is getting into the mini pedal game with their TS Mini, AD mini and SM mini.
I "tried" getting into the mini pedal craze with the EP Booster and Sonic Research ST300 Mini. Sold them off because I found them to be a bit unstable on the board, especially the ST300 which as very lightweight.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
Xotic, TC, Wampler, Keeley, Ibanez, etc. should all be at the same quality as their other offerings. Mooer and the similar actually seem like decent quality, but really it's just feeding designs into the SMT machines. Switch and pot quality may be suspect.
frostopsy
New member
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
I don't have a problem with the brand name stuff. It's all the weird **** like mooer etc that pops up on amazon and the like.
I don't have a problem with the brand name stuff. It's all the weird **** like mooer etc that pops up on amazon and the like.
devastone
Well-known member
Re: I am sick of crappy @$$ mini pedal listings
That's a sweet little board Ace! Does the solo work well in front of the rat? I would have probably thought about using them the other way around, I guess I would think the solo would be the more amp-like pedal and use the rat as a boost into it. Of course, you may not be using them that way at all.
That's a sweet little board Ace! Does the solo work well in front of the rat? I would have probably thought about using them the other way around, I guess I would think the solo would be the more amp-like pedal and use the rat as a boost into it. Of course, you may not be using them that way at all.