I can't make strat's sing!

[uOpt]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

I also can't support the action theory. I recorded A/B with "too low" and "too high" action, and when playing it certainly felt like they sound different. None of that made it past the electronics chain. The little snarl that you hear on the frets on the first swings after the pick do not seem to consume enough energy to lead to a different length of sustain.

However, those high action knights usual play differently, fight the guitar more and pay more attention to their hands. That makes a difference.

But I already posted what I think will change the guitar on the first page: clean up your neck pocket.

 

[uOpt]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

If this is true why aren't these guitar builders making guitars that have a lead plate on the headstock (the GT fatfinger thing never caught on, I wonder why?) or building guitars that are super heavy?

http://www.zzounds.com/item--GVTFFG

Also goes along with heavier tuners.

What tuners does Gilmour use, again?

 

[jimijames]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

The notion that more mass equals longer sustain or better tone is a myth, imo.

If this is true why aren't these guitar builders making guitars that have a lead plate on the headstock (the GT fatfinger thing never caught on, I wonder why?) or building guitars that are super heavy?

You'd think they would have caught on by now ...

because mass is more effective a the points where the strings are anchored. Hence brass bridges instead of brass guitars. You can't make a guitar infinitely heavy - people wear them on their shoulders ya know. And as for lead plate headstock, people do make them, except not lead - it's soft and absorbs vibration. And as for the fatfinger - it works. Just because it hasn't caught on doesn't mean a failure of function, just of demand. Just for a little experiment, take your guitar headstock, and press it against something like a marble counter, then hit a note/chord. It will sustain longer.

 

[uOpt]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Just for a little experiment, take your guitar headstock, and press it against something like a marble counter, then hit a note/chord. It will sustain longer.

That's wouldn't mean it is mass related.

Doing this you could prevent the neck from vibrating much in the first place. If the neck tends to "eat up" vibrations when swinging itself that would improve things. But it wouldn't mean that if that same piece of wood had been used to make the same neck thicker that the sustain would be better.

Sustain also doesn't equal singing. There are plenty neck-throughs that sustain very long but they are useless for single-note "singing". None of the guitarists that let single notes stand for long that I can think of right now use neck-throughs.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Sustain also doesn't equal singing. There are plenty neck-throughs that sustain very long but they are useless for single-note "singing". None of the guitarists that let single notes stand for long that I can think of right now use neck-throughs.

+1

Sustain is overrated from the plucked note ringing for 25 seconds standpoint...nobody ever lets notes go that long anyway. The singing quality comes from what the guitarist is doing with his hands...holding the note tight enough but not too tight...having just high enough action to let the string swing it's fullest...digging in with the pick, picking nearer the neck, and giving it the right vibrato in addition to what the amp is and how it's set.

Wanna learn how to make one sing, Kernel...watch some Robin Trower vids.

 

[uOpt]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

+1

Sustain is overrated from the plucked note ringing for 25 seconds standpoint...nobody ever lets notes go that long anyway. The singing quality comes from what the guitarist is doing with his hands...holding the note tight enough but not too tight...having just high enough action to let the string swing it's fullest...digging in with the pick, picking nearer the neck, and giving it the right vibrato in addition to what the amp is and how it's set.

Wanna learn how to make one sing, Kernel...watch some Robin Trower vids.

I dunno. If either of the pieces of wood, or the neck pocket/joint, or the tremolo, or the pickup don't support a nice bloomy response you can play like a young god on steroids and the axe won't even notice.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

...Anyways...too much voodoo talk here

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

actually i prefer bone and steel or brass, not sure there is a huge difference in sustain either way. a good trem block can make a big difference. a little higher action will also help sustain if your action is too low. 10's or higher gauge strings

Graphtec does help. Like everyone, every little thing adds up to more sustain, be it playing technique, whether you got a big trem block or not etc. Given that you can get graphtec saddles for relatively cheap these days, I would recommend them to anyone, and even if you don't notice a sustain increase, at least you can be sure your string will be less prone to snapping in the saddle.

 

[jimijames]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

That's wouldn't mean it is mass related.

Doing this you could prevent the neck from vibrating much in the first place. If the neck tends to "eat up" vibrations when swinging itself that would improve things. But it wouldn't mean that if that same piece of wood had been used to make the same neck thicker that the sustain would be better.

Ok, point well taken, but I still think mass is a huge part of the equation.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

A good setup, good neck angle, frets dressed, nut clean and not pinching the strings, tuners that are wellmounted, all the usual small things.
Graphtech sounds like pooh to me.....never tried a single piece for the last +20 years that I liked with that stuff on....
Stainless just makes them more pingy, more nice tones in Japanese frets.
Use good strings...no big mysteries or anything.

 

[Hellion]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

That's one appeal of single coil guitars....particularly Fender. You need to work harder for your tone, and it brings out your musical personality more, because you're having to attack it differently to make it sing.

I always have to lighten my touch when I move over to Gibsons from Fenders, to account for shorter string length and sustaining humbuckers.

Boy, I hear that! I always have to make a huge adjustment when moving from my Teles to my SGs (not so much moving to the LP), because you have to caress a Gibson whereas you attack a Fender.

You might try adding a compressor at the front of your signal chain and increase your gain. You'll get a bit more noise, but if it's set up correctly, you can get sustain for days.

 

[Hellion]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Graphtech sounds like pooh to me.....never tried a single piece for the last +20 years that I liked with that stuff on....

Really? Wow. I've never had a guitar that I put GraphTech saddles on that DIDN'T sound better with them. Not refuting your ear, just surprised.

 

[blueman335]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

I think knowing how to deal and react to different instruments including amps should be a development goal of any player. I know a few really good players who are so dependent on their tone, they can have a totally off night if anything goes wrong and they have to use something they are not used to.

I agree, which is why I have a wide assortment of Gibson-style designs: LP, SG, 335, Flying V, thinline hollowbody, & full-depth hollowbody. From ultra thin to big & fat. Since I can make these "sing", there's no need to lose sleep about what I can or can't do with a Fender. So relax man.

 

[blueman335]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Boy, I hear that! I always have to make a huge adjustment when moving from my Teles to my SGs (not so much moving to the LP), because you have to caress a Gibson whereas you attack a Fender.

So does that mean that we in the Gibson-design camp are more sophisticated & precise, more discerning, compared to those unwashed Fender bangers? "The sort of man that reads Playboy" as it were (for the articles)...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

+1

Sustain is overrated from the plucked note ringing for 25 seconds standpoint...nobody ever lets notes go that long anyway. The singing quality comes from what the guitarist is doing with his hands...holding the note tight enough but not too tight...having just high enough action to let the string swing it's fullest...digging in with the pick, picking nearer the neck, and giving it the right vibrato in addition to what the amp is and how it's set.

That is exactly correct.

Great players know how to shape the tone with their hands...beginning players, intermediate players or just mediocre players who don't get a good tone or good sustain blame the guitar, the pickups, the bridge, the weight, the wood, the amp, the tubes, the speaker, etc., etc. - everything but the real problem, which is usually a lack of good hand coordination and/or playing technique.

Slow down. Learn to shape the tone with your hands and pick. Stroke the string and coax the sustain out of your guitar with a beautiful finger vibrato.

Listen to and play along with some BB King CD's. Do what BB does. He always gets a great tone and great sustain...and he has such a beautiful vibrato!

 

[astrozombie]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

I agree with most everyone.

Fender guitars are very barebones, they are very unforgiving.

You cant be sloppy on one, Itll show.

A friend of mine has a Les Paul Custom that I can play in a sloppy manner, and sounds good.

I could never EVER do that with my Tele, or my Jaguar, OR even my... well... my strat has an invader, so it has no tone anyway, just gain. :laugh2:

WORK that guitar bro, make sure youre doing everything the way youre supposed to be.

it COULD be the guitars setup.

it COULD be your playing.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

So does that mean that we in the Gibson-design camp are more sophisticated & precise, more discerning, compared to those unwashed Fender bangers? "The sort of man that reads Playboy" as it were (for the articles)...

It means Gibson players are girly men and Fender players are like Ahnold!

Just kidding.....2 roads to the same destination.

 

[blueman335]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

It means Gibson players are girly men and Fender players are like Ahnold!

Just kidding.....2 roads to the same destination.

Don't know how you Fender players manage to get to the same destination, but some of you do, and more power to you.

 

[Hellion]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

So does that mean that we in the Gibson-design camp are more sophisticated & precise, more discerning, compared to those unwashed Fender bangers? "The sort of man that reads Playboy" as it were (for the articles)...

Hey, I DO read the articles in Playboy! LOL...

No, I think it's just a proclivity to the design of the guitar.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Don't know how you Fender players manage to get to the same destination, but some of you do, and more power to you.

It's just a tiny difference, but once you feel the place in your hand/wrist/arm where the bends and vibrato are the same as the short scale guitar, it's down to muscle memory.