i give up...advice!?
- Thread starter Hoss
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JohnnyGuitar
New member
Re: i give up...advice!?
I read a review in Guitar Player that said that the Vox Tonelab sounds great through PA systems.
I played a few times with the guitar plugged directly to it... for cleans and jazz it came out fine... wouldn't count on singing tone though...
I read a review in Guitar Player that said that the Vox Tonelab sounds great through PA systems.
I played a few times with the guitar plugged directly to it... for cleans and jazz it came out fine... wouldn't count on singing tone though...
7 DYing Trees
New member
Re: i give up...advice!?
You could go the meshuggah approach and use line 6 stuff, i think they use vetta's, or a pod-xt. Have a look into that!
Depends what sound you are going for really.
You could go the meshuggah approach and use line 6 stuff, i think they use vetta's, or a pod-xt. Have a look into that!
Depends what sound you are going for really.
Bludave
New member
Rich_S
HomeGrownToneBrewologist
Re: i give up...advice!?
Welcome back Hoss, my Schecter PT-playing friend.
I'm in the process of joining my new church's band on guitar AND simultaneously taking over the operation and administration of the sound system. I joined the Church Sound forum at ProSoundWeb.com (http://www.live-audio.com/). I was surprised at one thread I saw when I first signed up - a noob asked how to get a good guitar tone off a miked amp. None of the experienced sound engineers who responded said "use a modeller and go direct". The consensus was to start with a good, small tube amp, mike it with an SM57, then experiement from there.
If you're being told that you have to use a modeller direct, then somebody needs to push the "smite" button on your soundman. I'm not a fan of modellers - I'm sure it's possible to get good tones out of them through the board, but it's equally possible (perhaps even easier) to get good tones from a miked amp. There has to be some give-and-take: I would say a guitarist who shows up with a Marshall NMV half-stack and says it has to be cranked to get "his tone" is not being reasonable and needs to meet his soundman half-way (OK, maybe 3/4 of the way).
But IIRC, you already have a Blues Junior, and no competent soundman should have a problem with that. In a really small church, a MiniMASS might be in order if you really like to crank the BJ. Our church seats about 250, and I'm finding I run my "Marshall" 13 Watter really low on the MASS. I just bought a VibroChamp that I think will be sufficient as my "Church amp".
Spend half of your money on an SM57 and a small stand or mounting bracket. Mike the amp yourself every week to make sure you get it right. Maybe set up an off-hours time to experiement with your miking position, just you and the soundman. Then blow the other half of the $200 on yourself.
Or, buy your soundman this book , and (to paraphrase Monty Python) hit him with it, right here, above the beak.
Welcome back Hoss, my Schecter PT-playing friend.
I'm in the process of joining my new church's band on guitar AND simultaneously taking over the operation and administration of the sound system. I joined the Church Sound forum at ProSoundWeb.com (http://www.live-audio.com/). I was surprised at one thread I saw when I first signed up - a noob asked how to get a good guitar tone off a miked amp. None of the experienced sound engineers who responded said "use a modeller and go direct". The consensus was to start with a good, small tube amp, mike it with an SM57, then experiement from there.
If you're being told that you have to use a modeller direct, then somebody needs to push the "smite" button on your soundman. I'm not a fan of modellers - I'm sure it's possible to get good tones out of them through the board, but it's equally possible (perhaps even easier) to get good tones from a miked amp. There has to be some give-and-take: I would say a guitarist who shows up with a Marshall NMV half-stack and says it has to be cranked to get "his tone" is not being reasonable and needs to meet his soundman half-way (OK, maybe 3/4 of the way).
But IIRC, you already have a Blues Junior, and no competent soundman should have a problem with that. In a really small church, a MiniMASS might be in order if you really like to crank the BJ. Our church seats about 250, and I'm finding I run my "Marshall" 13 Watter really low on the MASS. I just bought a VibroChamp that I think will be sufficient as my "Church amp".
Spend half of your money on an SM57 and a small stand or mounting bracket. Mike the amp yourself every week to make sure you get it right. Maybe set up an off-hours time to experiement with your miking position, just you and the soundman. Then blow the other half of the $200 on yourself.
Or, buy your soundman this book , and (to paraphrase Monty Python) hit him with it, right here, above the beak.
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Re: i give up...advice!?
Don't do that direct crap man... That totally voids the point of even having a guitarist.
While all these modelers and modeling amps work for some in the bedroom, they don't have life in them like a real tube amp. Even most analog solid states have more life than modelers.
As rich said, just mic your blues junior. If you can't turn it up much, use a distortion box when needed. Slap your soundman with a large trout if he gets mad.
Don't do that direct crap man... That totally voids the point of even having a guitarist.
While all these modelers and modeling amps work for some in the bedroom, they don't have life in them like a real tube amp. Even most analog solid states have more life than modelers.
As rich said, just mic your blues junior. If you can't turn it up much, use a distortion box when needed. Slap your soundman with a large trout if he gets mad.
bungalowbill
Luckybastidologist
Re: i give up...advice!?
Hoss, you can use your Blues JR plugged into a Hughes And Kettner Redbox. Its an old school direct box and speaker emulator that works well, try ebay.
Hoss, you can use your Blues JR plugged into a Hughes And Kettner Redbox. Its an old school direct box and speaker emulator that works well, try ebay.
ParameterMan
New member
Re: i give up...advice!?
@Rich_S: Stole the words outta my mouf, baby. I couldn't agree more. At my church I finally got them to see the light by bringing my whole tube rig. I think they agreed that it sounded better than an 80's Fender SS amp run directly into the PA. At least for distortion. They recently bought some amps, and at my suggestion got two AC-15CCs. I rigged them up with SM57s and all I can say is the guitar sound just got a whole lot better. Except for this one guy who brings his Boss GT-5 and leaves it on Santana Lead the whole time.
@Rich_S: Stole the words outta my mouf, baby. I couldn't agree more. At my church I finally got them to see the light by bringing my whole tube rig. I think they agreed that it sounded better than an 80's Fender SS amp run directly into the PA. At least for distortion. They recently bought some amps, and at my suggestion got two AC-15CCs. I rigged them up with SM57s and all I can say is the guitar sound just got a whole lot better. Except for this one guy who brings his Boss GT-5 and leaves it on Santana Lead the whole time.
Rich_S
HomeGrownToneBrewologist
Re: i give up...advice!?
Behringer makes a similar speaker simulator/DI box called the Ultra-G. Who knows whether or not you'll agree that it "...so realistically emulates a 4 x 12" cabinet you may never need to mic speakers again", but for $35, I guess its worth a try. PartsExpress carries it.
Behringer makes a similar speaker simulator/DI box called the Ultra-G. Who knows whether or not you'll agree that it "...so realistically emulates a 4 x 12" cabinet you may never need to mic speakers again", but for $35, I guess its worth a try. PartsExpress carries it.
Rich_S
HomeGrownToneBrewologist
Re: i give up...advice!?
This just in: H&K currentlt sells a "Classic" version of the Red Box, $120 at zzZounds. Keep in mind that the Red Bo and its ilk will simulate a speaker before injecting the sound into the PA, but it will not dump the load that a speaker provides to the amp. So, you'd be using the Red Box in conjunction with your BJ's speaker, and still have the stage volume that your soundman undoubtedly finds so horrifying.
This just in: H&K currentlt sells a "Classic" version of the Red Box, $120 at zzZounds. Keep in mind that the Red Bo and its ilk will simulate a speaker before injecting the sound into the PA, but it will not dump the load that a speaker provides to the amp. So, you'd be using the Red Box in conjunction with your BJ's speaker, and still have the stage volume that your soundman undoubtedly finds so horrifying.
CapoFirstFret
New member
Re: i give up...advice!?
Sennheiser E 906......and be done with it
Sennheiser E 906......and be done with it
LesStrat
Reining PunLowered
Re: i give up...advice!?
To answer your question:
I have (and have used often) a L6 POD xt Live. In a decent PA, it sounds great (sorry Mephis, you're wrong). I'm seriously considering using it again for Wednesday night services, once I find time to program some good settings for the Ibie.
Now to MY question: You mean to tell me that a Blues Junior is too loud in a YOUTH service???? Is this guy really that stupid? Maybe he shouldn't be working with the youth group.
I'd probably approach it a different way: This is the equipment I have and can afford. If you buy me a POD xt Live and the direct box to play it through, and provide a dedicated monitor channel and monitor FOR ME and my equipment, then I can play.
Bro, there have been Sunday AM services in our church in which I couldn't take the volume. The youth services? Bring earplugs.
Sorry, but once again the soundtech is overstepping boundaries and authority. This is another issue for the pastor to resolve. You've already
"Been there, done that."
To answer your question:
I have (and have used often) a L6 POD xt Live. In a decent PA, it sounds great (sorry Mephis, you're wrong). I'm seriously considering using it again for Wednesday night services, once I find time to program some good settings for the Ibie.
Now to MY question: You mean to tell me that a Blues Junior is too loud in a YOUTH service???? Is this guy really that stupid? Maybe he shouldn't be working with the youth group.
I'd probably approach it a different way: This is the equipment I have and can afford. If you buy me a POD xt Live and the direct box to play it through, and provide a dedicated monitor channel and monitor FOR ME and my equipment, then I can play.
Bro, there have been Sunday AM services in our church in which I couldn't take the volume. The youth services? Bring earplugs.
Sorry, but once again the soundtech is overstepping boundaries and authority. This is another issue for the pastor to resolve. You've already
"Been there, done that."
:laughing: 
