I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

[Aceman]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Obviously in this country the rich seem to be quite stupid, irony I suppose, those of use who had to climb and roll back down the mountain a few times appreciate things and have hopefully learned from life's experiences. Those that have been handed everything seldom appreciate it. As long as I have been playing I am not about to play a $8-9K guitar, the very idea freaks me out really, something happening to it gives me a sense of paranoia I cannot handle, but likewise I am not going to waste my time with a poor sounding and bad quality instrument.

Wow….

I am not rich.
I am absolutely not stupid
And unlike you - I have the balls to take Christine (Ace Frehley Aged Budokan #16) out on stage next Friday night.

I bet I could blind sound test you and you couldn't tell a Joyo US Dream from A Suhr riot, or an Ibanez $300 Import from Steve Via's personal handmade US axe.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Gear is what makes the guitar fun for me, take that away and the guitar is pointless for me.

I actually feel sorry for you.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I think I started because I like music.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

From Gainstage's post #58, I deduce that this argument that cheapo gear sucks isn't about tone, but the feeling in your heart (if you got one...lol) when using/ playing it. If I get him right I agree with his assertion. A 200 dollar Ibanez can definitely level a 3000 Stevie Vai signature guitar - if upgraded. If you record it, let's be realistic, no one is gonna be able to tell the difference. There are too many factors involved.

The difference is the satisfaction and feeling. Cheapo guitar feels...cheap. An Indonesian guitar will always be a cheapo even if you have spent 2000 dollars on upgrades. But playing an 8K guitar feels better, let's be honest. Just holding it feels good, an that's what you won't get from cheap gear. So it's not about tone, it's the personal satisfaction.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Gear is what makes us stick to electric guitar. Can you imagine, being a piano player, just having one huge giant wood in your room without ever tinkering with the inner workings? This forum exists cause we love gear, let's be real. I even doubt if regulars of this forum spend more time playing and practicing than talking/ discussing/ planning their next purchase.

I don't know what's going on at the piano forum. Must be really boring talking about practice routines, rootless voicings or diminished scale the whole time.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I make gear and repair guitars plus pedals....
I play more than I fiddle with gear....have always done so.
To get down to it, I use gear that has quality.
Cheap as in cheap is no good in the long run, it costs way way too much to maintain!

That is why I have the guitars I have, they only need major overhauls after a decade or two.
You cannot make a cheap cheap guitar sound like an good one!!!
Don't even wanna debate it...experince that goes 30 years back has taught me that!

A good wellmade guitar that uses quality parts, is never going to be outpaced by a cheap POS...the latter will fall apart in all sorts of ways!
Back to Boss pedals.....they are sturdy, has long lives....that we know now!
If you calculate the prices back in the 80's to now...they are not cheap, nor are they ridiculous expensive.

If you have the time and patience, pedals can be made well for reasonable money!
The trouble is to get the parts for good prices! (Bulk is your friend here, if you have enough capital you can sell at better prices)

 

[Hank-]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Gear is what makes us stick to electric guitar. Can you imagine, being a piano player, just having one huge giant wood in your room without ever tinkering with the inner workings? This forum exists cause we love gear, let's be real. I even doubt if regulars of this forum spend more time playing and practicing than talking/ discussing/ planning their next purchase.

I don't know what's going on at the piano forum. Must be really boring talking about practice routines, rootless voicings or diminished scale the whole time.

I bet they have long discussions over keyboards & synths on the electric side of things, while acoustic pianos aren't really cheap they could always talk about upright vs the other type i suppose lol

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Cheap as in cheap is no good in the long run, it costs way way too much to maintain!

That is why I have the guitars I have, they only need major overhauls after a decade or two.
You cannot make a cheap cheap guitar sound like an good one!!!

A good wellmade guitar that uses quality parts, is never going to be outpaced by a cheap POS...the latter will fall apart in all sorts of ways!

If you have the time and patience, pedals can be made well for reasonable money!
The trouble is to get the parts for good prices! (Bulk is your friend here, if you have enough capital you can sell at better prices)

We should sue Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio, Gotoh, Celestion, Warmoth and the rest of the part makers for misleading consumers to believe their parts will make crappy gear sounds great.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Maybe people should learn to reason??

 

[mantis]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I think at times, belligerent attitude toward certain brands is warranted. Why? Cause everyone agrees it's crap. Behringer is the perfect example of this. About 7-8 years ago nobody took it seriously. Most of its stuff is copy of renowned industry standards, from pedals to preamps to rack effects to DI box to mixers, you can find just about anything in its lineup. It actually has a Sonic Maximizer and Sonic Exciter copy with cheesy word-play like 'Sonic Ultramizer'.

Although some of the stuff like the plastic stompboxes and Sans Amp clone is quite decent for casual players and students, nobody with a profession in the music industry ever laid fingers on Behringer. And it's true. I used to have a mic preamp very2 cheap. After around 1.5 months the LEDs went wrong. I couldn't return it for an exchange cause it was more than 30 days already (what a perfect timing eh? lol...).

Now I want to continue to BBE Sonic Maximizer. This thing is - regardless of the technical explanation provided by BBE - is just a 2-band EQ. It just kills your sound. Be my guess, search everywhere and the general consensus is Sonic Maximizer is tone killer. I am talking from personal experience.

As that might be very true for you , there are plenty of people who swear by the BBE Sonic Maximizer. I for one own one and like to use it from time to time. It changes the way your sound is for better or worse is up to you. I Personally don't use it that much unless I'm in the mood for how it reacts. It pushes things forward and makes things stick out a bit more. If you dial it in and get the tone where you like it, turn it on and turn it off you get the feel of it. It's a useable pedal IMO

 

[mantis]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

This is evolving into the usual argument we've seen many times here.

If the less expensive versions are entirely as good as the much higher-priced versions, the latter would end up disappearing or having to drop their prices to the levels of the more economical versions. A classic area for this is the audiophile world.

The key phrase is probably 'diminishing returns'.

One can get close to the ideal for a reasonable cost. Many don't hear the differences so they are happy to get 85-90% of the way for a modest budget, and they are perfectly happy. But it's that last ten per cent that can cost serious money, and if you hear the differences, you won't be happy until you can make inroads into that last small percentage.

Indeed there are some people who will pay serious money simply to have an impressive brand-name attached to an item. But I'm not talking about those types. Some people will pay serious money to an unknown maker if they feel they are getting that last few per cent of quality that they seek.

There's no point in getting defensive about any of it. If you can find what you consider perfection or close to it for not much money, that's great, and you are lucky. If you can see/ hear/ feel/ sense some finer details that will cost a lot more money to attain, it's your choice as to whether you pursue that or not ... the quality you seek is out there somewhere.

So it's all good for everyone, even those who want champagne on a beer budget (stop drinking beer for a little while, save the money and quite quickly you'll be able to afford the champagne you seek).

At least nowdays some very fine instruments and equipment are available to the lower budget ... it hasn't always been that way. We should celebrate more than we snipe and gripe about it. Everybody is well-catered for nowdays. And most of all, becoming musician-ly is still up to the individual and the effort they put in, that has never changed throughout history.

Excellent post my friend.
I'm in the "Audiophile " Business and have been for about 20 years. I see that all the time. It's retarded in the cable world, companies and people go crazy over them. Just to say good quality cables are whats needed to achieve the job of sending a signal from A to B with out interference or loss is the goal. But at what price can this be achieved has always been the question. And to add once you achieve said goal, there is nothing more can be done.
Speakers and amps go crazy to in that ring.

In the guitar world, I don't see this as much. Yes it's there but nothing like the Audiophile world.

 

[mantis]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Gear is what makes us stick to electric guitar. Can you imagine, being a piano player, just having one huge giant wood in your room without ever tinkering with the inner workings? This forum exists cause we love gear, let's be real. I even doubt if regulars of this forum spend more time playing and practicing than talking/ discussing/ planning their next purchase.

I don't know what's going on at the piano forum. Must be really boring talking about practice routines, rootless voicings or diminished scale the whole time.

You said ONE HUGE GIANT WOOD LOL

 

[mantis]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Where does the OP live? I wasn't even aware that the current trend (at least from his observation) is 1x12 combos and cheapo guitar. Around here (and I live in less fortunate place than most of you), high-end tube combos, half stack, full stack, Line 6 POD rack, HD500 floor effect, expensive Prestiges and AVRI and Japanese Strats and TCE pedals are not uncommon. 2x12 is hard to find? I myself use a 2x12 Laney and I don't even play live.

Bucks County PA which is just North of Philadelphia and minutes from New Jersey.
So I'm wanting to check out a few amps on my list.
1) Blackstar Series one 1046L6 and the 104el34. Nobody has either in stock to play. They have the ID core and HT series. One place had the Series one combo 45 and that was it.
2) ENGl. I have been wanting to plug into one and hear it go for a long time now. No one anywhere near me has them. Yes they carry ENGL but you have to buy before you play. I have a huge problem with that.
3) Randall. Same as above, just can't get my hands on one. Sam Ash use to have them on the floor especially when George Lynch was promoting his signature Lynch box. That went away with the wind and so did the entire Randall anything on the floor. I hate it.
4) Marshall JVM. Years and years ago you at least where able to find some nice Marshall amps to try out. Good luck now. Finding a JVM you gotta pray for someone to trade one in somewhere. No one has a JVM new on the floor nowhere.
5)EVH you would think everyone would have the entire line on the floors as this is probably the most popular amp right now for metal guys.
You will see a Lunch box model new with NO cab in stores, you might even find a 50 watt head new or used floating around but again with NO CAB. The 1 x 12 combo you would think would be everywhere is NO WHERE. You can't go plug into one anywhere. The 100 watt head is gone and the 2 x 12 combo is over in NJ with a Broken out of phase model sitting on a showroom floor which I told them about it and I'm not sure if they sent it back to Fender or not and put a Proper 2 x 12 on the floor.
6) Hughes and Kuttner good luck
7) Bogner nope no where anymore.
8) Mesa Boogie you can find the 1 x 12 combo's and maybe if your lucky a small head and maybe a 1 x 12 cab. Maybe a used 4 x 12 somewhere.
9) Peavey which you would think you would trip over 6505+ everywhere you turn. If your lucky you will find a 1x12 combo. No heads and cabs anywhere NONE.
So you can understand my frustration trying to find a new amp is damn near pointless. I can't go anywhere and find my sound.

 

[mantis]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

haha, yeah..but in all fairness...these guys are running businesses not charities. They're in it for the money/profit ...bottom line, just like any business. As long as people buy they will manufacture & sell. It's fair enough..everyone's happy. I could'nt care less lol...just don't run my stuff down 'cause it costs less (the truth is ...it could well sound a whole lot better than your's :laugh2

But the thing to understand is there's a point beyond which it's all about brand-value & nothing else. In my estimation that's around the $1250-1500 mark. NO guitar will actually cost more to make unless it's gold-plated/jewel studded or something. You can have BKP's an OFR, a hell of a finish and all the other knick-knacks figured into that price. I personally stick between the $400-$800 mark because I think it represents the max fair value after upgrades. The 5k+ guitar's don't really offer any tangible features/jump in quality that the (max) 1.5k+ guitar's don't have. For that price they could figure in titanium Floyds and stuff but they almost never do...it's just profit after that...

Which brings us back to "no one's making guitar's for Charity" :lmao:

I find in todays market the $500 to $1500 range is where it happens. After that your not really getting anything better per say basically as you said. I agree. Under that your not getting a quality instrument IMO

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

As that might be very true for you , there are plenty of people who swear by the BBE Sonic Maximizer. I for one own one and like to use it from time to time. It changes the way your sound is for better or worse is up to you. I Personally don't use it that much unless I'm in the mood for how it reacts. It pushes things forward and makes things stick out a bit more. If you dial it in and get the tone where you like it, turn it on and turn it off you get the feel of it. It's a useable pedal IMO

I have the 482i rack. It was good until I bought a 31-band graphic EQ. You can talk all you want about it but in the end, let's be real, it's a 2-band EQ and how far can you go with 2 bands? The only time it works is on a low-watt practice amp with 8-inch speaker. Maybe you should do a video on how you dial it. lol....

 

[mantis]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I have the 482i rack. It was good until I bought a 31-band graphic EQ. You can talk all you want about it but in the end, let's be real, it's a 2-band EQ and how far can you go with 2 bands? The only time it works is on a low-watt practice amp with 8-inch speaker. Maybe you should do a video on how you dial it. lol....

That's not a bad idea as I thought of making some Video's on Pickup Height adjustment, Pole adjustment , Amp settings etc.
My Sonic Maximizer is like brand new as I said I don't use it that often. It's more of a toy to me then something I use everyday. Years ago when I got my first one ( I sold it and then got another one years later) I used it all the time. I dialed it in and it was the last thing in my chain before the amp in the effects loop so everything went through it. I find placement was key for it as I tried it in different places in the chain , out in front of the amp from the guitar right into it, then after the OD effects out in front to the First thing in the effects loop to the end position where I find it to make the most sense is the last pedal in the loop right in front of the amp section.
I start at 12 o'clock and go from there. I try all kinds of different positions to add or take away what I think I need at that moment LOL.
If I make a video I'll post a link here.

 

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Excellent post my friend.
I'm in the "Audiophile " Business and have been for about 20 years. I see that all the time. It's retarded in the cable world, companies and people go crazy over them. Just to say good quality cables are whats needed to achieve the job of sending a signal from A to B with out interference or loss is the goal. But at what price can this be achieved has always been the question. And to add once you achieve said goal, there is nothing more can be done.
Speakers and amps go crazy to in that ring.

In the guitar world, I don't see this as much. Yes it's there but nothing like the Audiophile world.

I would say that the difference between the audiophile and the musician is that one is trying to reproduce a sound exactly as it was recorded while the other is focused on creating the source sound. One wants the full audio spectrum available at all times while the other seeks to manipulate their sound by limiting or enhancing the frequency response to varying degrees based on the sound they want... The exception would probably be the gear found in a PA system or studio control room.

 

[Artie]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I would say that the difference between the audiophile and the musician is that one is trying to reproduce a sound exactly as it was recorded while the other is focused on creating the source sound.

Then there are those of us in between. The pseudo musician/audiophile. I like my music "hi-fi", but that doesn't stop me from occasionally injecting the cheap-ass vintage Pioneer or Sansui reverb into the signal chain. It's about fun.

 

[Demanic]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Maybe people should learn to reason??

Not likely.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Then there are those of us in between. The pseudo musician/audiophile. I like my music "hi-fi", but that doesn't stop me from occasionally injecting the cheap-ass vintage Pioneer or Sansui reverb into the signal chain. It's about fun.

I would still classify you as a musician rather than an audiophile when it comes to the sound of your electric guitar. As a listener you might be an audiophile and select equipment based on how accurately it reproduces things as they were intended; but as a musician you select your gear based on the sound you want for that track/song/section of music.

You might go for high end gear most of the time, but ultimately you're willing to use something considered lower quality if the way it impacts your sound is desirable... even if only for specific bits and pieces of your music.