I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

[Paully]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Love my tube combo pushing a 1x12.
However, my Yamaha THR is much more versitile outta the box. Of course it also doesn't take into account for a rather extensive pedal board in front of the Bugera (tube) amp.

 

[Mincer]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

The Helix, and the HX Effects are both visually wonderful. But that doesn't matter much to me in the end, I go for both sound and the ability to get the sounds out of my head. I didn't hang on to the HX Effects. It had some strange quirks that I couldn't get past.

 

[Sirion]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

I still have some way to go before I want to make the leap to amp modelling: to me, the feel is still too different. I have, however, ditched the pedal board in favour of a G-System, which is starting to get old but sounds magnificent. I might go to modellers at some point; I doubt I'll ever go back to a pedalboard rig.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

The feel of modeling has improved dramatically in recent years.

I used an amp model this morning that is quite responsive to pick attack.

 

[justFred]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

where you place your studio monitors makes a H U G E difference!!!

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

I have heard some great modelers and have friends who get great tones out of theirs. I however have tried them and eventually gotten rid of them and gone back to my tube amps. I do not have the patience to fiddle with patches and settings for hours on end. It's too much. Too many choices. Too many options.

All my gear tends to be simple. I don't like pedals with more than three knobs. I don't even like amps with more than simple EQ settings. I know what tone I want and I want the shortest route to it. That's just me though and I recognize it. Modelers are not for me.

 

[justFred]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

That is a very good point....since getting the Fractal find myself tinkering far more then before...hey what would it sound like to play through a 5E3, JTM45, AC30....all hooked together...the Fractal does it...it really does sound like I would guess these three amps am familiar with would sound...but bottom line spent playing time tinkering around...always a trade off...

 

[devastone]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Yes, option anxiety is a problem, and why I would rather use an amp and some pedals, but not practical. So, I basically only use a couple of patches on my GT-1000 that pretty much have the same effects with just different amps on the dirty channel. I have one that has a clean channel and a high gain stack, another with the same clean and a crunchy combo, and when I go to the patch they are set up so the switches act like stompboxes. Some patches may trade out a flanger for a uni-vibe or something, but pretty meat and potatoes stuff. And yes, I know I am missing a lot of functionality, you can stack delays on delays, and make up some crazy signal chains, but in the end, I really don't have a use for much of that.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

That is a very good point....since getting the Fractal find myself tinkering far more then before...hey what would it sound like to play through a 5E3, JTM45, AC30....all hooked together...the Fractal does it...it really does sound like I would guess these three amps am familiar with would sound...but bottom line spent playing time tinkering around...always a trade off...

What's interesting to me is that my best tones almost always fall between 2 amps- A dunlop pedal has worked wonders between a Yamaha G112 a plexi, a twin and plexi and currently a splawn and classic 50- Clean on one end, crunch on the other and all blues in the middle-

So I spent a lot of time tweaking models for cross fading- up front, it's much easier to just hook up to 2 good amps- but in the long haul, its much easier to transport a single modeling amp with a CV pedal.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

I've wanted to like modelers for years but never found something with the tone and feel of my tube amps.

I have recently discovered the Yamaha THR10C and have to say it does a very good job with the tone and feel, IMO. I still prefer a real tube amp but this Yamaha is better for my apartment life right now.

I really liked the tone of the Boss GTs, especially the cleans. Line 6 PODs' heavier distortion amps sounded great but the light crunch and cleans always sounded fake and the feel wasn't there. Behringer V-amps had really good "British" sounds to me but again...the feel wasn't there.

Haven't tried stuff like the Fractal but based off of my Yamaha I would wager the technology is getting much closer to the tone and feel of tubes.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

What I don't understand is why it has to be an either/or situation with so many guys. Every few months on various message boards one of these, "MODELLING AMPS WILL KILL TUBE AMPS" threads comes up. Why can't it be both? I mean, if we follow the logic that tube amps will become obsolete and be pushed out of the market and replaced by modelling amps, shouldn't digital multi-effects have killed stomp box pedals years ago? They haven't. There's still thousands of analog pedals still on the market, ALONG WITH several very good digital multi-effects units that range from decent to stellar.

So tube amps aren't going anywhere. Modelling amps are here to stay and will continue to carve out their own piece of the marketplace. All gear has it's own place and player. I mean, I'm playing a reissue of a guitar that was first released in 1952. That was 66 years ago.

 

[dystrust]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Haven't tried stuff like the Fractal but based off of my Yamaha I would wager the technology is getting much closer to the tone and feel of tubes.

I've only played an Axe Ultra, but they had the feel really close at that point. The feel was closer to a rack preamp / poweramp system than a self contained tube amp, but it was light years ahead of any other modeler I've seen.

I've heard the Axe II is even better, but I haven't been interested in tracking one down to find out. The biggest disincentive for me is high end modelers' cost along with their not being repairable. If something goes wrong with my tube amp I can fix it for the most part, whereas if something goes wrong with a modeler, it's a door stop.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

What I don't understand is why it has to be an either/or situation with so many guys. Every few months on various message boards one of these, "MODELLING AMPS WILL KILL TUBE AMPS" threads comes up. Why can't it be both? I mean, if we follow the logic that tube amps will become obsolete and be pushed out of the market and replaced by modelling amps, shouldn't digital multi-effects have killed stomp box pedals years ago? They haven't. There's still thousands of analog pedals still on the market, ALONG WITH several very good digital multi-effects units that range from decent to stellar.

So tube amps aren't going anywhere. Modelling amps are here to stay and will continue to carve out their own piece of the marketplace. All gear has it's own place and player. I mean, I'm playing a reissue of a guitar that was first released in 1952. That was 66 years ago.

Exactly what I believe

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[devastone]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

I've only played an Axe Ultra, but they had the feel really close at that point.

So, assuming they were voiced the same, a tube preamp into a tube power amp would feel different that a head with the same preamp and power section? Or, is it more a modern vs vintage voicing thing?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Back to the simple little mustang that started this thread, tonight for the first time I put my blackstar ht dual preamp in front and all I can say is wow... The blackface model once again absorbs frontend goodness well...tons of headroom for the real tubes in the black star to wail.

The funny thing is I really dont need any of this hybrid crossing but it sure makes the busy work of practice more interesting.

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[dystrust]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

So, assuming they were voiced the same, a tube preamp into a tube power amp would feel different that a head with the same preamp and power section? Or, is it more a modern vs vintage voicing thing?

The closest I've come to that comparison was a Soldano X88 & SM100 vs both an SLO and a couple Hot Rods at a Soldano dealer near here about 15 years ago. The tone was almost identical between the heads and rack, but the heads had a more immediate, responsive feel while the rack just seemed a bit detached. I've built a few racks over the years and none of them had the same sort of response as a good tube head. Honestly it was a significant factor in why I was never happy with my tone from a rack system.

 

[devastone]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Interesting, no explanation, just interesting. On of the best tones I ever had was from a rack, and it had a MosValve power amp. It was probably the Kasha preamp, it sounded amazing, or more specifically, it worked great for me. And that was after using a Soldano Hot Rod, Mesa Mark IV, and Marshalls.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

I guess I'm in the same boat. Since I bought my Helix, I've sold off my Splawn and Fender SuperSonic 60. Still have my JVM and VTM120, but those have sentimental value for me, so they won't be going anywhere. I also still have my Triple Rec Reborn which sounds great, so it's staying too. The Helix's Recto model is the red channel of the older version of the 3 channel Triple Rec, of which I had an example, and hated, so I really don't like the Helix Model. But in a manner of ways, the Helix has kinda turned things upside down for me. I went from an amp nerd that was preparing to build amps, to a guy who said, "what's the point?!".

But that said, I do still want some iconic amps in my collection. Namely, a BE100, Revv Generator 120, some examples of older Marshalls (JTM45, SLP, JCM800, Jubilee, ect), maybe some old Fenders, and some Mesa/Boogie stuff. Because as good and as flexible as modelers are, there's still something about real tubes that I still like a little better. But, I was enamored with the Helix for a long time, and still am. It took a couple years, but I do hear a little difference.

And as far as the rig I use in my band? It's my Helix going into a tube poweramp and into a pair of guitar cabs.So it's kind of a hybrid rig. But as soon as I can afford it, I want to throw a Boogie JP2C rackmount into the rack with it. I can get close to those tones with the Helix, but not quite. The Helix is great for clean and mid gain tones for me, but after playing in a band again for awhile again, I've come to realize that the high gain tones just don't quite do it for me. They're close, Scarry close, and the regular listening public wouldn't know the difference, but for an amp nerd like me...close but no cigar.

 

[Mincer]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

I jumped into the modeling world slowly, first using a guitar power amp and guitar cabs. Now I am going direct and using in-ear monitors. There is a lot less to bring to a show, the stage is a lot cleaner looking, the onstage sound is pretty quiet, and it is much easier to mix FOH. I love not having to lug heavy amps, even if i still like the way my amps sound.

 

[Securb]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Keep in mind with the FUZZ/OVERDRIVE/DIST box is coming up on 50 years, that sound, tone and flavor is still very sought after. I would not say there is a better option between amp distortion and stompboxes. They are different tones for different applications I do not limit myself to one or the other.