I need help choosing a pickup set

[jmp22684]

I have been reading these forums and your opinions on each pickup for a few weeks now... I am at a point where options and indecision is becoming a problem ... so:

I need help from the experts!!

This is for a 2 humbucker guitar (80's Japan made custom order ESP Horizon):

I enjoy these styles (though I do have a strat and 7 other beautiful guitars I will mostly be using one when we play out so I am not switching every other song):
SRV
Hendrix
Clapton

then

Heavy by Collective soul
Brother Cane
Black Crows
Paralyzer by Finger 11

then

Lynard
Georgia Satellites

etc...

So I like to play Classic rock, southern rock, 90's rock, a little metal.

I usually use a high gain amp (mesa rectifier) but also have marshal, fender ... I have options but mostly use the rectifier with a tighter cab.

What I am looking for in a pickup:
-I want to get nice leads out of my bridge pup but I use my neck pup plenty and often switch between the two in the middle of a solo. One cover we play is Joe Bonamassa's version of Just Got Paid (the version he uses a theremin in, though we skip that part for now) ... just an example of the solo sound and pickup switching I use in some songs.
-Would like the pickup to handle a good amount of distortion with a nice tight sound (I can't stand that flabby lose bass end, your notes often get lost in that mess)
-I suppose some mid scooping is okay, I can fix that in the EQ. Can't be overly scooped, each instrument has its friendly frequency range so it doesn't get lost in the mix and ours is between 200-400Hz so I don't want to lose that and clash with the bass guitar/snare/singer/etc...
-don't want it to be too bright. I want definition but we all know when we have put together a tone and even at low volumes its just plain ear piercing and painful.

So here is what I have been looking at and REALLY having a heck of a time with:

Neck:
59
Pearly Gates
Seth Lover Neck
Slash Neck

Bridge:
Pearly Gates
JB
Custom Custom
Duncan Custom (ceramic)
59/custom Hybrid (this looks interesting - I may be interested in this)

Any other suggestions for pickups with my description would be GREATLY appreciated. And what your thoughts are on combinations. If Seymour Duncan is fine with it I am in the position to buy several options and return the rest after making a decision.

Other info: I am thinking about adding the Blackout Modular Preamp AND the Triple Shot Pickup rings to this guitar as well (I understand this does away with the 59 neck as I would need a 4 conductor pickup). Heck these are just additional options I havent even seen if I can wire in both the triple shot rings and the preamp together, though I hardly see why not.

Anyways thank you in advance and sorry about the long message. I thought it important to give as much info about the tone I was looking for and with this tough decision I want to ask those of you with experience. This will be my first time swapping pups in a guitar; though I have plenty (by that I mean enough to be dangerous) of experience with electronics and am no chump with wiring. I think if I can wire up and repair a tube amp I can handle a pup swap.

 

[Liko]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

One question; what wood is your guitar's body made from? Some ESP Horizons are alder, others mahogany. Yours is a custom order so it really could be anything.

Given your influences and favorite styles, I think you'll be best suited with a more classically-voiced set for clean/OD genres, but with some oomph to drive an amp into the metal realm. I'd recommend a '59 neck paired with a Custom bridge as a good starting point. The 59 is fairly level-toned with a bit of a scoop, a good match to almost any HH, while the Custom is a "More PAF"-style bridge that retains the scooped EQ profile of vintage bridge pickups with higher output.

If your guitar is exceptionally dark or middy sounding (mahogany or basswood bodies lean this way) you might want the extra sparkle of a Jazz or PG neck, and you might go up to the Custom 5 bridge, but that pickup is very modern-sounding under distortion, in the general prog-metal area. You could also look at the Perpetual Burn bridge, which is a signature model that IMO bridges the gap between classic and modern metal tones, and produces a good 80s-90s distortion.

If you have a brighter alter body or a maple cap, you'll probably have no trouble getting trebly tones out of it with any pickup combination, so I'd stay with the '59 neck and look at something with more mids for the bridge. The JB is all about midrange; very thick low-mids, cutting upper-mid "presence", works really well for 70s and 80s hard rock and metal (because practically everyone was using this pickup or something like it). If you like the tone but it's just too much of a good thing, the Custom Custom backs off the low mids and adds a little "air" to the high end for a clearer-sounding but still very middy pickup. The custom will still work but I would not entertain the Custom 5 in a brighter body if you're looking for classic tones.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

Thanks for the quick reply.
I am not sure what woods this guitar is made of, I'll post some pictures when I have a chance. I know you probably wont be able to tell with just a picture but heck I'll try anyways.

I am still trying to find more info on this ESP. I picked it up used and even had a lot of concern about its authenticity but after a few emails with ESP they were able to verify it for me but with little additional information. Also it is a simi hollow body if that helps with pickup decisions. This was also a deciding factor in its authenticity question. Being they are difficult to make its highly unlikely that someone would go through the amount of effort you see in its construction for a knock off.

I am familiar with the 59 and JB combo. I have another horizon with this combo, but made an extremely tough decision to sell it. It looks far better than the one I am keeping but I feel the custom just feels and plays better ... Just barely, but form follows function.

Anyways I will get back with some photos.

One thing I do notice about the 59 is I dislike how it sounds split. Which is something I didn't think you could do with the 59 being a 2 conductor pup. But my 2012 ESP Horizon FR ii has this option.

When you are referring to the custom are you talking about the ceramic duncan custom? I have ceramic pups in a gibson fire bird and love how they sound. I have read a lot of people saying ceramic pups are extremely bright but what I have noticed is that they can get much warmer than the 57's in my les paul. And they do have a very tight sound.

What are your thoughts on the 59 custom hybrid?

 

[Liko]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

Thanks for the quick reply.
I am not sure what woods this guitar is made of, I'll post some pictures when I have a chance. I know you probably wont be able to tell with just a picture but heck I'll try anyways.

I am still trying to find more info on this ESP. I picked it up used and even had a lot of concern about its authenticity but after a few emails with ESP they were able to verify it for me but with little additional information. Also it is a simi hollow body if that helps with pickup decisions. This was also a deciding factor in its authenticity question. Being they are difficult to make its highly unlikely that someone would go through the amount of effort you see in its construction for a knock off.

I am familiar with the 59 and JB combo. I have another horizon with this combo, but made an extremely tough decision to sell it. It looks far better than the one I am keeping but I feel the custom just feels and plays better ... Just barely, but form follows function.

Anyways I will get back with some photos.

One thing I do notice about the 59 is I dislike how it sounds split. Which is something I didn't think you could do with the 59 being a 2 conductor pup. But my 2012 ESP Horizon FR ii has this option.

When you are referring to the custom are you talking about the ceramic duncan custom? I have ceramic pups in a gibson fire bird and love how they sound. I have read a lot of people saying ceramic pups are extremely bright but what I have noticed is that they can get much warmer than the 57's in my les paul. And they do have a very tight sound.

What are your thoughts on the 59 custom hybrid?

I was indeed referring to the ceramic-magnet Duncan Custom (not the Custom 5 or Custom Custom; SD needs to watch their names). I stand by that being a good first step for most SuperStrats, and if you want to nudge the native tone of the axe further one way or another you can send out some trade feelers in the BST board of this forum (or elsewhere, but these are good folks).

As for splitting, one thing to understand is that a split humbucker won't sound like a Strat SC; the resistances are too different, especially when talking about a vintage-output '59 that has a series DCR just 1K or so above an SSL-2. Split, the '59's barely in the lipstick range. You'll get a little closer with an overwound pickup, but you'd need 15k or so in the neck to split down to a Strat coil. If you're really into getting a good split sound, the Stag Mag was designed expressly for this.

Haven't played the hybrid, but a lot of people like it as the mismatch adds some single-coil style grit to the bridge tone. I like really clean cleans from my humbuckers, so I'd probably go with the Custom Custom for the airier high end with the same midrange attack.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

If I was choosing pickups for you, I'd put a '59 Bridge model in the neck (more mids, less flabby bottom than the '59 Neck model) and a '59/Custom in the bridge. I would have suggested a full-on Custom (SH-5) for the bridge, but I think you'll appreciate the pulled back character and enhanced dynamics of the '59/Custom hybrid more for the styles you play.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

If I was choosing pickups for you, I'd put a '59 Bridge model in the neck (more mids, less flabby bottom than the '59 Neck model) and a '59/Custom in the bridge. I would have suggested a full-on Custom (SH-5) for the bridge, but I think you'll appreciate the pulled back character and enhanced dynamics of the '59/Custom hybrid more for the styles you play.

My thoughts exactly. The 59/C is a great pickup for all genres of rock and some metal. Seeing as how the rock is more prevalent in your style, I'd definitely recommend the 59/C. I thought the 59n would be a better choice, but I can see the 59b being the better option now.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

Okay guys, sorry it has taken so long to get back to you... Self Employed, Married, 2.5 Year old, House, Mother in law just moved in (oh its everything I ever dreamed it would be!! haha)... Just haven't had a chance to get on.

Great suggestions!

I have decided at the moment that I don't want to sell my other ESP Horizon so I was wondering if I should try different pickups. That guitar already has a 59n and JB configuration... Gorgeous guitar, but jesus the floyd rose is a real PITA! Going to get a Tremel-no for it so I can drop D a bit more accurately and I may be taking it to Pete Marino (a REAL expert) and have it routed behind the bridge a little so I can install a D-Tuna without losing my ability to pull the bridge back (just worried about killing the value of the guitar... or i could advertise custom if I ever sell!). It takes Pete almost 3 months to get to anything but he is worth it. One of the original builders for gibson, and he moves a little slower these days (I am in kalamazoo).

As I said I am not sure what woods the guitar is made of. I never got into that aspect of it too much. So if by some great chance you are able to tell by a picture here are some:

This is the custom build, you can see EXTREMELY sloppy wiring. So that is getting completely gutted... I was almost wondering if replacing the pots, switch and wires would breath new life into these pickups. I know this doesn't look like any ESP seen which is why we REALLY questioned the authenticity of this guitar. I had a long post about this instrument at the ESP forum and emailed with ESP as well. After a few good points, one being the fact that it is a hollow body which are difficult to make and a few ESP representatives getting back to me; I was told:

"Thank you for contacting ESP Guitars. We apologize for the delay in our response, but this particular instrument required a few extra pairs of eyes. Based on the photos provided, we have determined the instrument in question appears to be a legitimate ESP that would have been built in Japan in the late-1980's or early-1990's for overseas markets. It does not match the specifications of any regular production model of the time, and was therefore most likely a custom order. Unfortunately, due to inconsistent record-keeping over the years, we would be unable to provide any further specifications or production date information."

I was still a bit nervous, but this thing plays better than every other guitar I own... its insane, the first time I have been in a position where I am honestly a better player with this guitar.



So keep the suggestion coming!! and again thank you for the help!!

 

[jmp22684]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

And here is the beauty I am having difficulty deciding to sell or not:

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

Well that looks like a maple top and a mahogany neck and body.

Or is your guitar the Floyded one?

Which changes the equation a bit.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

I cannot help noticing that, despite being photographed from two different angles, the appearance of the "quilting" on the top of the FR-equiped guitar does not change. It is a photoflame.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

The lighter guitar with the wilkinson trem is the one getting the new wiring, pots and pups.

The darker FR has 59n and JB installed already.

 

[Liko]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

The lighter guitar with the wilkinson trem is the one getting the new wiring, pots and pups.

The darker FR has 59n and JB installed already.

Judging by the grain and tone of the wood, you have a mahogany body and neck with flame maple cap. Nice-looking axe.

I stand by my '59n/Custom suggestion. Other posts have recommended the 59b in the neck for a little less mud, and that's certainly a worthy choice. You really can't go wrong, it all depends on what you want out of this guitar. Your Floyded Horizon is very probably a similar construction other than the trem, and with its '59/JB loadout you have the opportunity to have two similar-playing axes with different voices, which you'll get with the Custom bridge in the Wilkinson-equipped axe. If you want different neck sounds, you could go brighter with a Jazz or PG neck instead of the '59, or experiment with high-output bridge coils in the neck position of one guitar.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

Thank you liko.

You know what Funk... I never really noticed that or thought about it until you said something... Now its bugging the crap out of me. Nail in the coffin there; I may take one of the offers I've had now. Hmph

 

[Masta' C]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

Pardon my ignorance, but I HIGHLY doubt a top-end ESP like that uses a "photo-flame" top. It may not have the best "movement", but I'd be absolutely blown away if it wasn't a real piece of flamed maple...

 

[jeremy]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

its easy enough to tell, unscrew one of the pup rings and take a look

 

[Alex Semple]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

Hi All,
I had the pleasure of meeting both Mike Wead and Andy LaRoque backstage at the King Diamond show at the Wiltern back in October during Bass Player Live. Killer show (Abilgail in its entirety plus choice KD and MF classics to start off. Anyway, Mike was rehearsing with an EII and then live he played his ESP Horizon. Andy played a Dean. All of their guitars are loaded with TB-11 Custom Custom and 59 necks. Amazing tone and a versatile set up.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

its easy enough to tell, unscrew one of the pup rings and take a look

It would be more difficult to tell if it was a veneer, which is quite possible. I'd expect photoflame occasionally on an Edwards, LTD, GrassRoots, etc, but not a real MIJ ESP.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

Okay I did some looking around for our little A.D.D. side conversation.

LTD: Simple veneer top
ESP: Veneer top with maple cap underneath
ESP CUSTOM: Full figured maple top

 

[Demanic]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

From out of left field, how about this: Jazzn neck, Alternative 8 bridge, both in Triple Shot rings. All sorts of versatility there. Ever hear an Alt8 split or in parallel?

 

[elelpe]

Re: I need help choosing a pickup set

59/Custom in the bridge and Screamin Demon in the neck. Both pickup split well.