I need the help of an electronics whiz

ItsaBass

ItsaBass

New member
Hi,

I'd love to have the following options from a three-way toggle switch on a 2-humbucker guitar, using no other switches, buttons, Triple Shots, et cetera:

1: bridge pickup
2: one coil from the bridge pickup in series with one coil from the neck pickup (a "virtual" humbucker, using one coil from each pickup)
3: neck pickup

Is this possible with any known three-position toggle switch? I doesn't need to look like a Gibson toggle switch, but it does need to fit into the same hole.

I have been trying to draw this hypothetical magic switch, but to no avail. The only thing I can think of that would do this would be a circuit that employs battery-powered mini relays, controlled by the three-way toggle. That would allow the center position of the passive switch to perform as many simultaneous switching functions as necessary to get those combinations (two required, I believe: one DPDT to split both pickups, and another one to put the split pickups in series).

Thanks.
 
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Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

I've done this before but it was an EMG 3 way blade switch. Youll need a 3 way 3pdt switch!
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

Thank you. I understand full well that it can be done with certain blade switches. I need it to happen with a three-way toggle, though.
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

The Free way can kinda do what you want, but you'll get 3 "bonus" positions in your way.
http://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_...nd_Parts/Switches/Free-Way_Pickup_Switch.html

99f482c14c.png
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

It's gotta be parallel. I believe I looked at those, and rejected the idea for a variety of reasons.
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

Not possible on a 3 way toggle switch (I'm thinking of the heavy duty center-on DPDT, or heavy duty 3PDT center off-switches, as those would be the only ones to fit like a LP style switch).

If only there was such thing as a super-3-way-switch for LPs. It sounds like a really cool idea, but you'd need more than one switch. I think your only bet would be to go with the freeway switch.
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

Myaccount876 said:
Not possible on a 3 way toggle switch (I'm thinking of the heavy duty center-on DPDT, or heavy duty 3PDT center off-switches, as those would be the only ones to fit like a LP style switch).

If only there was such thing as a super-3-way-switch for LPs. It sounds like a really cool idea, but you'd need more than one switch. I think your only bet would be to go with the freeway switch.
Click to expand...

Even then, who knows if it can be set up to do series in one of the two middle positions. It can provide all of the options I want using one of the supplied diagrams...but the middle option is in the "wrong" place, and there are three options there that are completely unwanted (i.e. half of the switch would go unused).

What about the relay idea? Is there any merit to it? Anyone?
 
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Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

Let me double check how the freeway switch works. For the relay, it could work. We should probably get Artie, GuitarDoc, or Frank in for that though. They'd probably be more helpful with the relay idea.
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

It's actually less complicated than the free-way switch, the way I see it. It's a much more straightforward concept to my mind, as opposed to trying to keep a bunch of internal switch connections clear in your head. As long as you have the right power source to actuate them both simultaneously, it should be no problem to get the center position of a three-way toggle to click two DPDT relays on simultaneously.

Or, maybe a 4PDT on-on-on switch or something in that vein can just do it completely passively.

The thing is, I never use the middle position on Gibsons...and the options for wiring three-pickup Gibsons are all pretty lousy and cumbersome IMO. This might be a way to solve both of those problems, by eliminating a never-used position, while at the same time giving a virtual middle humbucker sound that might actually work better than a "real" middle humbucker.
 
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Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

The only reason I'm not sure of the relay is because I've simply never used them! Lol I really should start studying electronics again. I'll be reading up on relays now.

And I'm with you on Gibson middle positions. Even Fender middle positions - I only really like their stock parallel-middle positions on teles. Otherwise I find single coils in series to be more usable, especially with phase switching. I like your idea of a "virtual" middle humbucker. If it's anything like the tele bridge and neck pickups in series, it'd be really cool.
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

I dunno... I would sooner go the route of coil taps on push/pull pots for splitting and paralleling goodness.
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

Hey Itsa; Just saw this. You can do this, but it requires an oddball "military" switch. I just happen to have one that's been sitting around collecting dust for years. You can have it. The top half looks like a normal toggle. Underneath, it's 3 micro-switches, in a frame. Looks like this:

Special_3-way.jpg

Here's how works: (I'll provide more detail later.)

Special 3-way.png

Switches A & C are oriented in one direction, and switch B is reversed 180 deg's. So, when the toggle is in the middle, all three switches are in the NC (normally closed) position. Refer to the "middle" diagram. The bridge stud coil is in series with the neck screw coil. My favorite virtual 3rd humbucker sound.

When you switch to the bridge position, only "B" changes. Now you have the normal bridge pup. When you flip the switch to the neck position, "B" stays in the NC position, and A&C go to the NO position, which gives you the neck pup.

Make sense? (I can even pre-wire the switch for you if you want.)

Artie
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

I'm sure you're aware that the typical Gibson-style 3-way toggle's center position is an automatic bridge between the two outer positions. However, this connection is made manually when the switch is constructed. Of the switches I've dissected, the outer connectors are small plates with 2 tabs, and the inward-facing tabs are bent and soldered together to form the bridge.

In theory, it should be possible to get what you're after by separating these two tabs either from each other or from the outward-facing tabs, making the center position user-definable. At that point, you would either shunt the unused coils to ground with this new connection group, or pass the desired coils to the hot.

However, the other factor in getting this to work may lie in the design of the switch regarding how it activates the center position. I've seen 2 designs with 4 different possibilities:
1. The switch bat presses two plates together to ground the opposing side (flip it Down to push the Neck pickup's plates together, opening the Bridge pickup's plates)
2. The bat presses two plates together to form a hot circuit (flip it Down to push the Bridge pickup's plates together, opening the Neck pickup's plates)
3. The bat separates two plates, breaking a hot connection (flip it Down to separate the Neck pickup's plates, leaving the Bridge pickup's plates touching)
4. The bat separates two plates, lifting the Ground on one side (flip it Down to separate the Bridge pickup's plates, leaving the Neck pickup's plates touching).
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

ItsaBass said:
Hi,

I'd love to have the following options from a three-way toggle switch on a 2-humbucker guitar, using no other switches, buttons, Triple Shots, et cetera:

1: bridge pickup
2: one coil from the bridge pickup in series with one coil from the neck pickup (a "virtual" humbucker, using one coil from each pickup)
3: neck pickup

Is this possible with any known three-position toggle switch? I doesn't need to look like a Gibson toggle switch, but it does need to fit into the same hole.
Click to expand...

I figured out a way it can be done with a rotary style four pole three throw switch

$(KGrHqR,!h!E7RKNLKIEBO1nWnwE1g~~60_12.JPG


If this type of knob is workable in your guitar, I can provide a diagram.

Edit, I'll summarize that plan. One of the poles will decide which pickup to send the positive lead to, bridge, both, or neck, although when "both" are selected, it still routes the positive to the bridge humbucker since that would be the series "entry point". Two other poles will mate the screw and slug coils in series, per their usual operation, but in the center position, it will mate the screw coil of the bridge humbucker with the slug coil of the neck, in series. There's a fourth pole on the dial that would go unused, maybe it could be incorporated into a pyrotechnics display.
 
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Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

That's awesome. If his guitar can accept that rotary dial, he's all set. Hopefully ItsaBass' guitar doesn't require long shaft controls.
 
Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

ArtieToo said:
View attachment 62984
Click to expand...

Hey, based on your diagram I had an idea for a 4PDT switch like this one:

4PDT_Ibanez.jpg

My wiring idea:

4PDT_solution.jpg

Would that work? From your diagram however it looks like you're using both the "upper" coils. What I tried to wire before was both inner coils, because I thought that would be hum-cancelling? Or is it the other way round? Always confuses me
 
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Re: I need the help of an electronics whiz

Thanks for the diagram, and for offering the switch.

I will write you in better detail once I'm home from work.
 
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