I officially don't get it.

[jeremy]

Re: I officially don't get it.

the blackout singles ive been using have a huge dynamic range, from whisper quiet to LOUD. its been so long since ive used any other active pup that i shouldnt comment on them. i do remember the emg's having a fair amount of compression though

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: I officially don't get it.

I am not a fan of that E-brand when it comes to actives.

But i do have a set of Chrome Black Outs waiting for a Black LP (probably a studio), to be transformed into something very similar to this (see below), albeit with 2 vol & 2 tone knobs.

I want my Black Out equipped LP to look similar to this :

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: I officially don't get it.

As long as I've been a member here, all I've ever read from anyone who's not a through-and-through metalhead is that actives are sterile, cold, boring, etc. Pick your word for uninspired.

Now it's perfect, and that brings me to my original point. The Blackouts are loud.
They're high output in the truest sense of the words. But that doesn't mean they lack dynamics.
That doesn't mean they won't clean up with the volume rolled back. That doesn't mean you can't go from clean to mean with the flick of a switch.
I don't understand the hatred, and I honestly believe a lot of it comes from anonymous internet types who are repeating things they read online while wording them differently enough that it sounds like it's an original thought.

That being said, I've never played EMGs, so I'm not going to make the comparison here. Blackouts just sound gigantic.
They're fairly balanced, if a bit bass heavy in the bridge. The focus is more lower-mid based than the Custom 8 or Crazy 8 that were in there before, and I think that contributes to the bigger sound.
That and the higher output.
I definitely would not call the neck cleans glassy; I think warm is a better word. But both positions stay crystal clear through the entire gain range and volume knob travel.

But they're awesome, and they'll stick around.

I think the comments that you might have heard, and/or read, was geared towards EMG's.

I have not read a bad review / comment about Black Outs, and deff not on this forum, actives, or not.

 

[DreX]

Re: I officially don't get it.

There seems to be contradictory info out there are to the nature of dynamic range and active vs passive pickups:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_(music_technology)

The main advantages of active pickup systems is the ability to use active, multi-band equalization with the onboard preamp and they typically have a wider dynamic range than passive pickups

http://www.dawsons.co.uk/blog/what-is-the-difference-between-active-and-passive-pickups

So, why aren’t all pickups active? Well, passive pickups, despite their drawbacks, have a greater dynamic range.

Googling this turns up a lot of confusion. Maybe this is a difference between "seems more dynamic" versus "actually is more dynamic". I'd think an active would technically have a lower dynamic range since there's the added element of the pre amp complicating the circuit.

 

[DreX]

Re: I officially don't get it.

Also regarding the sterility of actives, I've read that (and it stands to reason) that actives expose more treble in the 10kHz range and beyond, because the low impedance active pickups actually have a sky high resonant peak, and are made to sound like passive pickups by bumping frequencies in the pre amp, but they don't attenuate the frequencies beyond that bump the way a passive pickup does (due to the second order low pass filter effect), for example, this graph from Fishman's site

notice that the response of the active pickup doesn't drop off the way it does with tose passive pickups. I submit that this is the cause of the perceived sterility.

 

[LLL]

Re: I officially don't get it.

Ah, the ol' "EMGs are sterile" chesnut. That's been going on for decades.

There's really nothing to "get" - it's all just people's preferences; nothing more. And the corresponding trash talking...

...like everybody does with any hobby or interest. Everybody's got an opinion/favorite, and they are certainly entitled to one.

Someone mentioned Megadeth's "Rust In Peace" tone. As an aside along the lines of pickups/EMGs, I recently
did a test of Positive Grid's BIAS VST amp modeler and surprisingly got that "Rust In Peace" tone using only
a Gibson Firebird loaded with '57 Classics. It's funny hearing my "Holy Wars" clip knowing the guitar and pickups
used are far more for classic rock instead of the typical metal setup. :laughing:

 

[LLL]

Re: I officially don't get it.

If you're curious, here's the clip.

Megadeth "Rust In Peace" tone using a Firebird loaded with '57 Classics. No EMGs or actives here.

LLL - BIAS Holy Wars

(did two guitar tracks and panned wide L & R)

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: I officially don't get it.

I am not a fan of that E-brand when it comes to actives.

But i do have a set of Chrome Black Outs waiting for a Black LP (probably a studio), to be transformed into something very similar to this (see below), albeit with 2 vol & 2 tone knobs.

As a side note I have one of those Paul Landers sig LP's that I would be willing to part with if you are interested.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: I officially don't get it.

the blackout singles ive been using have a huge dynamic range, from whisper quiet to LOUD. its been so long since ive used any other active pup that i shouldnt comment on them. i do remember the emg's having a fair amount of compression though

I think you have highlighted a good part of the problem here... People are speaking about all actives being equal when they really arent. Even among EMG's own range you have vastly different pickups and Blackouts certainly arent EMG's.

So when people make statments like "all actives have huge dynamic ranges" its just not true cause they arent all equal.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: I officially don't get it.

As a side note I have one of those Paul Landers sig LP's that I would be willing to part with if you are interested.

. . . sadly, i think you would want more (for good reason) for that sig LP, than a used Studio + a Black Out set will cost me

 

[uOpt]

Re: I officially don't get it.

A passive pickup can't have a dynamic range (unless you count so much current that it melts, I guess that would be an upper bound).

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: I officially don't get it.

I feel like this thread is complete now that the graphs have shown up.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: I officially don't get it.

Graph Zeppelin?

they don't attenuate the frequencies beyond that bump the way a passive pickup does (due to the second order low pass filter effect).

The standard issue green .001uF capacitor traditionally supplied with EMGs removes surprisingly little of the high end.* Changing to a .022uF (or above) capacitor helps enormously. The behaviour of 25k pots, compared to 250 or 500k is also a factor.


* The EMG-VLPF does not do very much more.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: I officially don't get it.

The thing that got me with EMGs were the loss of dynamics. Such as picking harder or softer didn't really make a difference.

I've been using an EMG SA set in a Pacifica for some time now and the parts played with it has landed in more production tracks than all my other eight passive guitars combined in the same timeframe.

On a side note, It's almost incredible how a "sub-two Franklins" guitar like the Pacifica can perform, stay in tune and perfectly intonate like these ones. Sometimes I feel my hand a little bit cramped when using first-position chords, due to the 40mm neck width, but I seem to adapt without making an issue of it. If the neck was 42mm or 43mm witdh, that would be PERFECTION.

And the "issue" of "lacking dynamics", at least in my case is so much NOT TRUE that I truly wonder where it might've originated from.

Anyway, one thing is true: the EMGs have a fast attack and decay that follows your playing so close that every single playing inaccuracy is reproduced cutting through the mix with the most brutal of honesties... and the same with all the playing nuances. So, if you ask me, the hate started with the sloppy player that couldn't take being confronted with his own inadecuacies revealed.

HTH,

 

[LtKojak]

Re: I officially don't get it.

.001uF capacitor traditionally supplied with EMGs removes surprisingly little of the high end

The one EMG supplies is actually a .1uF. the .001uF is usually used for treble-bleeding.

HTH,

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: I officially don't get it.

Oops! I'll wake up properly in a minute.

 

[Detroitblues]

Re: I officially don't get it.

Several years ago, I tried out a Stratocaster that had a set of EMG style pickups in them. They sounded different to me, it was hard to pinpoint why I didn't like them, it just didn't have a sound I liked. Looking at the curve above, I guess I can see why. The higher mid-range tone I was looking for wasn't there.

Now, one of the things I've heard about the active pickups when using a lot of gain is when you roll back the volume, it doesn't clean up the dirt like a passive pickup. My guess would be the active pickups pot values are about 5-10% of a passive pickup pot (I believe they are 25k vs 500k?). So when the volume is turned down on an active, not much a value difference has decreased like a passive pickup.

I believe that may be why so many dismiss them. I think that is what some people may refer to as a "dynamic" to pickups.

 

[krm27]

Re: I officially don't get it.

I just want to say that I am definitely NOT a metalhead, do not like or play metal at all. Yet my favorite go-to guitar has active pickups. It's a fat-strat/HSS style mid-80s Yamaha. I can dial in an amazing range of tones on it, great articulation even when dirty/crunchy. I like it for mainly alt rock, grunge, and classic rock.

Ken

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: I officially don't get it.

EMG's don't react to hard vs soft picking/strumming the same way passives do, that much is true. Thus the "lacking dynamics" thing. With an EMG (or other active) the attack doesn't really soften much no matter how lightly you pick. As for cleaning up by picking lighter, it can be done, it's just an adjustment, and some knuckleheads would rather talk **** on the internet than actually adjust to something.

EMG's have a lot going for them, even the ones everyone hates, especially for drop tunings and 7-strings. Few passives hold it together for a range from chugging a low A or B to lead playing on a high E like an 81 can.

As for Blackouts, I've only had the originals, but I prefer regular old EMG's personally. They did seem to have more picking range and react in a more traditional way, and they really did sound pretty good, but they were so hot, or something, they just didn't agree with me. As an example the finger noise was too much, I felt like I was trying to be Tom Morello. And I say that being used to really hot and unforgiving pickups that other people can't stand (Evo, DD, Aftermath, Painkiller). I'm sure I could have adjusted, but I'd rather talk **** on the internet.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: I officially don't get it.

EMG's don't react to hard vs soft picking/strumming the same way passives do, that much is true.

Thus the "lacking dynamics" thing.

With an EMG (or other active) the attack doesn't really soften much no matter how lightly you pick. As for cleaning up by picking lighter, it can be done, it's just an adjustment, and some knuckleheads would rather talk **** on the internet than actually adjust to something.

EMG's have a lot going for them, even the ones everyone hates, especially for drop tunings and 7-strings. Few passives hold it together for a range from chugging a low A or B to lead playing on a high E like an 81 can.

As for Blackouts, I've only had the originals, but I prefer regular old EMG's personally. They did seem to have more picking range and react in a more traditional way, and they really did sound pretty good, but they were so hot, or something, they just didn't agree with me. As an example the finger noise was too much, I felt like I was trying to be Tom Morello. And I say that being used to really hot and unforgiving pickups that other people can't stand (Evo, DD, Aftermath, Painkiller). I'm sure I could have adjusted, but I'd rather talk **** on the internet.

THIS !