I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone.. wow
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Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
If you mellow it out and take a soft attack, sure.
If you mellow it out and take a soft attack, sure.
phil_104
Cheesesteakologist
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
Righteous tone for sure. Over the last year I've learned that if you spend some time with a 3xSingle setup, you can get some really interesting results. The only thing I haven't been able to pull off with them is using a sloppy technique, and some very heavy metal.
Righteous tone for sure. Over the last year I've learned that if you spend some time with a 3xSingle setup, you can get some really interesting results. The only thing I haven't been able to pull off with them is using a sloppy technique, and some very heavy metal.
Agileguy_101
Master of his Domain
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
I've been thinking about going back to singles on my Strat for a while now. At the very least I'll go to HSS, perhaps SSS. With all of the guitars I've got these days I've less and less need for three guitars with two humbuckers and more and more need for great Strat tones. The only trick I'm trying to get around is figuring out how I can use a LP/SG style 3 way and still get the most out of all of the pickups. I'm thinking I'd have the 3 way do neck, neck+bridge, and bridge, and then have a switch to add the middle in. Then I'll have another to bypass the 3 way and just do the middle. It sounds like a lot of work, and it is (especially considering I want to put the 3 way in the Alex Lifeson position) but I REALLY dislike the fender style switch.
I've been thinking about going back to singles on my Strat for a while now. At the very least I'll go to HSS, perhaps SSS. With all of the guitars I've got these days I've less and less need for three guitars with two humbuckers and more and more need for great Strat tones. The only trick I'm trying to get around is figuring out how I can use a LP/SG style 3 way and still get the most out of all of the pickups. I'm thinking I'd have the 3 way do neck, neck+bridge, and bridge, and then have a switch to add the middle in. Then I'll have another to bypass the 3 way and just do the middle. It sounds like a lot of work, and it is (especially considering I want to put the 3 way in the Alex Lifeson position) but I REALLY dislike the fender style switch.
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
I do a lot of jazz with my G&L Legacys. Les Pauls too, for that matter. And there are some serious jazz players who use Teles.
Always have to laugh about Strats--you say "Strat" everyone thinks Cray, Clapton, SRV, Hendrix, Beck...but both Buddy Merrill and Neil LeVang used them with Lawrence Welk's orchestra!!! :wrf:
Very versatile guitars.
Bill
I do a lot of jazz with my G&L Legacys. Les Pauls too, for that matter. And there are some serious jazz players who use Teles.
Always have to laugh about Strats--you say "Strat" everyone thinks Cray, Clapton, SRV, Hendrix, Beck...but both Buddy Merrill and Neil LeVang used them with Lawrence Welk's orchestra!!! :wrf:
Very versatile guitars.
Bill
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
Basically what we're saying here is any guitar can do Jazz?
I swear I am not trying to be an jerkwad, but the first distorted part of the clip was aweful Jazz tone. I couldn't listen to much of it, I would guess he gets into a lot more of that distortion later in the clip...I don't know what kind of jazz they are doing, but I don't hear any 'great' tone. When he rolls the volume back back its good, IMO, its nowhere near 'great' like a ES 175 or Super 400, but then, I'm a traditional old skool kind of bebop guy when I litsen to jazz, I doubt a Strat or Tele would work for me in jazz no matter who is playing , but why would you want a Tele or Strat for Jazz anyhow?; whatever.
Basically what we're saying here is any guitar can do Jazz?
I swear I am not trying to be an jerkwad, but the first distorted part of the clip was aweful Jazz tone. I couldn't listen to much of it, I would guess he gets into a lot more of that distortion later in the clip...I don't know what kind of jazz they are doing, but I don't hear any 'great' tone. When he rolls the volume back back its good, IMO, its nowhere near 'great' like a ES 175 or Super 400, but then, I'm a traditional old skool kind of bebop guy when I litsen to jazz, I doubt a Strat or Tele would work for me in jazz no matter who is playing , but why would you want a Tele or Strat for Jazz anyhow?; whatever.
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mojosman
New member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
http://youtu.be/ePyTF99BQJI
Ronnie Earl does Jazz on a Strat as well as anyone.
http://youtu.be/ePyTF99BQJI
Ronnie Earl does Jazz on a Strat as well as anyone.
TimmyPage
New member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
I did some searching around and I found this dude's gear. He plays through a stock Fender Tex-Mex strat strung with 14's, through a Polytone Brute IV (solid state) amp. He uses a Keeley TS808, with the gain rolled down, and a Line 6 DL-4 and Verbzilla. The Polytone brute is mostly a clean jazz amp, but it has some nice speaker push when you turn up.
I think it's because modern jazz has kind of stepped away from the trad sound, and has gone more towards brighter very lightly distorted sounds which tend to use a lot of reverb or delay. I listen to dudes like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Mike Moreno, Ben Monder, Matthew Stevens (the dude who plays with Christian Scott), all of them let the tubes cook a little bit during gigs, and most of them take a distortion or overdrive with them too.When I think 'jazz' I think a lot about the modern sound of the guitar tone, although I will always love the tones of the players that defined guitar's place in the genre. It's fair if you don't like it, but it's part of the direction that modern jazz is going in.
It might be a generational thing too, a few of my profs in university (I have a masters in performance jazz guitar) hated the 'modern jazz' thing, and a few of them thought it was the most revolutionary thing that's happened to the genre since Miles brought us free jazz.
I did some searching around and I found this dude's gear. He plays through a stock Fender Tex-Mex strat strung with 14's, through a Polytone Brute IV (solid state) amp. He uses a Keeley TS808, with the gain rolled down, and a Line 6 DL-4 and Verbzilla. The Polytone brute is mostly a clean jazz amp, but it has some nice speaker push when you turn up.
I think it's because modern jazz has kind of stepped away from the trad sound, and has gone more towards brighter very lightly distorted sounds which tend to use a lot of reverb or delay. I listen to dudes like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Mike Moreno, Ben Monder, Matthew Stevens (the dude who plays with Christian Scott), all of them let the tubes cook a little bit during gigs, and most of them take a distortion or overdrive with them too.When I think 'jazz' I think a lot about the modern sound of the guitar tone, although I will always love the tones of the players that defined guitar's place in the genre. It's fair if you don't like it, but it's part of the direction that modern jazz is going in.
It might be a generational thing too, a few of my profs in university (I have a masters in performance jazz guitar) hated the 'modern jazz' thing, and a few of them thought it was the most revolutionary thing that's happened to the genre since Miles brought us free jazz.
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tubecrunch
New member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
I've never understood the "traditional" sound. A muddy neck pickup on a hallow body has never sounded attractive to me. The "Jim Hall sound" with the tone rolled off is even more puzzling. Even more puzzling to me: joe pass, Wes Montgomery, etc, never got a sound they liked with a bridge pickup.
I've never understood the "traditional" sound. A muddy neck pickup on a hallow body has never sounded attractive to me. The "Jim Hall sound" with the tone rolled off is even more puzzling. Even more puzzling to me: joe pass, Wes Montgomery, etc, never got a sound they liked with a bridge pickup.
TimmyPage
New member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
Jim's tone is kind of in the extreme, and to be honest, except for him I don't really like any of tones of the players who are constantly tone on zero (eg Pat Methany, a lot of Pat Martino's tone). Most of jazz guitar has taken place between 3 and 6 on the tone knob I'd say, the natural bright highs of the guitar sound really ugly when mixed with horns, and they tend to step on the brightness of the piano. The slightly rolled off nature helps keep the smoothness and helps give the guitar it's own 'voice'. Bridge pickup just.. doesn't sound nice when blended in with those instruments. I had a neck pickup with a bad soldering job come loose during a gig and ended up having to play an entire set on a bridge pickup, nothing I could do could make it blend with the vocalist or saxophonist I was playing with, and the tone was clashing with the piano's tone. It was bad.
Jazz, like most other genres, went through a lot of tonal eras. A lot of guy's around Jim's era would simply hear 'I heard that Jim Hall turns his tone knob off', so they'd do the same. As a result, it's become kind of a genre related sound, one that is expected when you hear the genre, and one that has been altered as it goes on. It's the same way that.. if I told you I was looking for a 'blues tone', there are a tonne of drastically different blues tones, but you could probably give me a few perimeters to look at, probably a handful of guitars and amps to look at. You could also look at a bunch of early blues or rock players, and hear the start of the modern tones you love, but it's something that has been continually improving since. The same has happened in jazz, just that most people have been looking in different directions the past 30 years.
Jim's tone is kind of in the extreme, and to be honest, except for him I don't really like any of tones of the players who are constantly tone on zero (eg Pat Methany, a lot of Pat Martino's tone). Most of jazz guitar has taken place between 3 and 6 on the tone knob I'd say, the natural bright highs of the guitar sound really ugly when mixed with horns, and they tend to step on the brightness of the piano. The slightly rolled off nature helps keep the smoothness and helps give the guitar it's own 'voice'. Bridge pickup just.. doesn't sound nice when blended in with those instruments. I had a neck pickup with a bad soldering job come loose during a gig and ended up having to play an entire set on a bridge pickup, nothing I could do could make it blend with the vocalist or saxophonist I was playing with, and the tone was clashing with the piano's tone. It was bad.
Jazz, like most other genres, went through a lot of tonal eras. A lot of guy's around Jim's era would simply hear 'I heard that Jim Hall turns his tone knob off', so they'd do the same. As a result, it's become kind of a genre related sound, one that is expected when you hear the genre, and one that has been altered as it goes on. It's the same way that.. if I told you I was looking for a 'blues tone', there are a tonne of drastically different blues tones, but you could probably give me a few perimeters to look at, probably a handful of guitars and amps to look at. You could also look at a bunch of early blues or rock players, and hear the start of the modern tones you love, but it's something that has been continually improving since. The same has happened in jazz, just that most people have been looking in different directions the past 30 years.
Falloffthebonetone
New member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
Strats tend to have a great everything tone.
Strats tend to have a great everything tone.
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
Tele neck pickups also work for jazz extremely well. With or without the tone control, depending on what you're going for. Telecasters are just great for everything, even some heavy metal.
Tele neck pickups also work for jazz extremely well. With or without the tone control, depending on what you're going for. Telecasters are just great for everything, even some heavy metal.
jimijames
New member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
The only problem is, if I'm not mistaken, that the gibson switch is designed for two pickups, so the middle position has the two in parallel, as kind of the default setting. I'm not sure though, it may be possible to wire a gibson 3 way to do neck - middle - bridge in the 3 different positions.
If it isn't, which I think is the case, I'd wire up a strat with a master volume and a master tone, and then use the third knob to roll in the middle pickup, kind of like a spin-a-split but with single coils.
The only sound you couldn't get with that would be the middle by itself, which IMO is a pretty good sound but people tend to gravitate towards the neck and bridge in a SSS setup as standalone sounds, and use the middle pickup for "in-between" sounds primarily.
This. Love the Telecaster format.
The only problem is, if I'm not mistaken, that the gibson switch is designed for two pickups, so the middle position has the two in parallel, as kind of the default setting. I'm not sure though, it may be possible to wire a gibson 3 way to do neck - middle - bridge in the 3 different positions.
If it isn't, which I think is the case, I'd wire up a strat with a master volume and a master tone, and then use the third knob to roll in the middle pickup, kind of like a spin-a-split but with single coils.
The only sound you couldn't get with that would be the middle by itself, which IMO is a pretty good sound but people tend to gravitate towards the neck and bridge in a SSS setup as standalone sounds, and use the middle pickup for "in-between" sounds primarily.
This. Love the Telecaster format.
DreX
New member
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
I don't understand why jazz and "high output" pickups aren't more associated. High output pickups naturally attenuate highs, and have a bold, warm clean tone. Why have bright pickups if your intention is to roll the tone knob way down? DiMarzio Red Velvets are singles wound to about 8.5k in every position, they are super smooth and sustain. Not glassy, but warm and not at all muddy.
I don't understand why jazz and "high output" pickups aren't more associated. High output pickups naturally attenuate highs, and have a bold, warm clean tone. Why have bright pickups if your intention is to roll the tone knob way down? DiMarzio Red Velvets are singles wound to about 8.5k in every position, they are super smooth and sustain. Not glassy, but warm and not at all muddy.
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: I take back everything I've ever said about Strats not having a great jazz tone..
The guitar sounded pretty nice, but I have to admit I mostly paid attention to the drummer the whole time. Dude was killing it!
The guitar sounded pretty nice, but I have to admit I mostly paid attention to the drummer the whole time. Dude was killing it!
