I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

[SJ318]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

AlexR,
That is exactly what I intend to do. When we first started I said I would turn down till it was where he liked it, thought it was fair and so simple. I could have 100 watt half stack and turn down, I use a sparkle drive for the tone and level for rhythm so that is easy to turn down.
But he fixated on the B.Jr.'s. As of now I told him I would be happy to try it. But I like the size of a bigger cab, like the HRDeluxe. So I will do what you all propose. If I really can't live with it and a G12, I gotta be me and he needs to realize I am on his side if he'll just listen and try the easy way. Plain old politeness to one another as some one here said.
SJ

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Please let us know how it works out.
Too me,singers are bad enough,much less one who tries to play guitar solos/front man "Title Dude"...
Ugh.

J/K(kinda),seems manageable,hope it's pretty easily resolved.
Good Luck!!!

& another +1 for all the good/great advice in this thread,as well!
:wave:

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Which G12? All Celestion 12" guitar speakers are labeled G12.

The G12H Anniversary, G12H-75 Creamback, and G12H(75) Heritage are all pretty much as loud as the G12 Vintage 30. The G12 EVH is noticeably less efficient.

 

[blueman335]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

-
- I was trying to tell him regardless of amp, it's how we set them and set pedals, etc.

- I did not think I was too loud, but now that so many people have pointed it out, after going back to the videos, I agree.

- He would not entertain that and got fixated on the matching amps.

- That is what it took to get him to play quietly on a blues solo. So while I agree with all of you, Good sense seems to be a sticking point as it is "his" band. A high school friend of mine from California said the same things you all said.

- Absolutely. You can have a very loud amp and set it at a low volume.

- It's hard to judge relative volumes on stage. It's best to have someone reliable in the audience tell you how you sound, volume and EQ-wise. I do that on my own regularly at local gigs during breaks: 'The bass is drowning everyone else out' or 'We can't hear the keyboard player.' They're glad to know what the audience is hearing.

- 'Matching amps?" What's next, matching outfits and hairdos? Are you a Motown band? Use the amp that gives the tones you want.

- I've seen Joe Bonamassa live, and on some of his solos, the whole band lowers their volume way down so Joe can play with a lot nuances that you normally wouldn't hear. It's a great idea. An interesting show has a lot of dynamics: loud/soft, fast/slow, major/minor, etc. If everyone's banging away all night at top volume, it becomes tiring and boring, and reveals a band's limitations. A live band is entertainment; always keep the audience's perspective in mind. as fascinated as you are with your band, you may be losing the audience's attention.

 

[jeremy]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

a good rule of thumb for volume (im not going to rehash what everyone else has said and youve agreed with) is can you hear everything the other guy is playing when he is soloing? if not, you are too loud. maybe its a tone thing but 90% of the time its volume. when he is soloing you should be backing him up, if you dont love your tone in that situation, it shouldnt be a big deal since people should be focused on him and the rest of you as an ensemble

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

1.) When you solo, your volume is fine.

2.) When he solos, you are too loud.

3.) Neither of you need to switch amps to correct this.

+1

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Generally speaking, when a band amounts to Big Name and The Sidepersons, with one person calling all the shots, that person should be paying the sidepersons each a wage.

 

[dotsdad]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

[QUOTE) When you solo, your volume is fine.

2.) When he solos, you are too loud.

3.) Neither of you need to switch amps to correct this.=/QUOTE]

+1

 

[dotsdad]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

I am not too familiar with the inner workings of your amp, but you may be able to pull out one or two of the power tubes to reduce the volume but still get the crunch. Try googling your amp model and mods and see what you can find.

You could also try using the volume knob on the guitar. I dont mean to be a smart@$$ but it is there for this very reason

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Fender Hot Rod Deluxe only has two output stage valves.

 

[chadd]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

1.) When you solo, your volume is fine.

2.) When he solos, you are too loud.

3.) Neither of you need to switch amps to correct this.

A lot of great feedback in this topic, but that really sums it up the best.

 

[SJ318]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Very Good Thread,
With every repeat comes two more ways to look at things. Rand-O - Rex - Blueman - Jeremy - GuitarSquirll - dotsdad - Funkingers - chadd - DrNewcen. - TreyH. - Lt.Kojak - mamm- AlexR - FrankF. - Secrub - Etc. It seems all my favorite forum members have chimed in on this thread. This should all be distilled into a one paragraph "Pledge of Guitar Etiquette".
I wish I could show this all to him but he might take it very negative before even reading it. He could be quite offended that I asked insight into this situation, but I asked only with the best intention. It might seem like I "ran to mommy to tell on him". I should have asked I guess, but that might have seemed like I was complaining about him personally, in public, to get a sort of "told you so", but that isn't it either. I will use all your advice starting with the "lets try it out all the way to everyones favorite, by sosomething "When I solo I'm fine, when he solos I am too loud, etc." So I thank you all. If I had a printer I might frame this.
All great advice, thanks so much.
SJB

 

[SJ318]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Hey,
How about the 12 Guitar commandments?
SJ

 

[VinceT]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

One other thing that I've seen SJB, and that hasn't been mentioned. The whole volume thing might be red herring if he becomes very self-conscious when soloing - I've worked with soloists who experience quite a bit of discomfort (lack of chops, confidence, etc.) but who aren't able to own that - and so they go looking for what feels uncomfortable to them that's ISN'T the source of their discomfort - in this case, for example, your relative volume. This then becomes their story/justification of why they were in discomfort while on stage - and, from the way you've described it, the singer here may well absorb that story into his identity/ego.

If this is the case, you might want to be a little stealthy - use the Blues Jr for a couple of practices/gigs, but try out all the tips and tricks that have been shared in this thread - at every chance, asking "how's the level working for you?" - the aim is to let him know you want him to succeed, and are doing what you can.

Then, once you've deflated the "it's the amp" balloon, and he's more comfortable when playing/soloing, you'll likely find he stops blaming you and you'll be able to reintroduce your own rig.

Of course, by this time, he'll be blaming the drummer [emoji6][emoji108]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SJ318]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Thanks, and i agree,
That was funny-"by this time he'll be blaming the drummer."
SJB

 

[Demanic]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Sounds like a good two guitar mix. Each instrument occupies it's own niche. He just want's you to turn down because you have better tone than he does. "Better" being a subjective judgment on my part. Though his sound still cuts through the mix, it just has that thinner more trebly traditional Tele tone.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Which G12? All Celestion 12" guitar speakers are labeled G12.

The G12H Anniversary, G12H-75 Creamback, and G12H(75) Heritage are all pretty much as loud as the G12 Vintage 30. The G12 EVH is noticeably less efficient.

This. The speakers don't change the volume nearly as much as they change the sound - specifically the EQ/frequencies you're putting out.

Seems like this should have been in the Amp Room, though.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

This. The speakers don't change the volume nearly as much as they change the sound - specifically the EQ/frequencies you're putting out.

Seems like this should have been in the Amp Room, though.

Kind of agree and kind of disagree.

What I really meant, though, is that several G12 models from Celetion have the same efficiency rating as the Vintage 30. Yes, their EQ curve and amount of breakup will be different, but a Vintage 30 and a G12H are very much in the same ballpark in loudness compared to each other. A G12 EVH or a G12M Heritage, however will be noticeably quieter with the amp at the same settings than a Vintage 30 or a Creaback H, and one would have to crank the volume up considerably to compensante.

My point was that asking if a "G12 is louder than a Vintage 30" is vague because all 12" Celestion guitar speakers are "G12's", even the Vintage 30.

 

[freefrog]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Late to the party and no comment to do about the "attitudes" but here are my humble thoughts, Steve.

1)When I use a HRD, I put a volume box in its effect loop. It's easy to build. See here: http://stinkfoot.se/archives/2159?sa=X&ved=0CCQQ9QEwB2oVChMI7uODk9z1xgIVir4UCh1Vjww1
No comment about the V30 (that I personally hate) but it's one of the loudest Celestion speakers, IME. So, yes, another Celestion might be a solution.

2)Personally, I couldn't play on stage without a volume pedal of some kind (I put it after the effects that I use and sometimes this pedal controls the loop of the amp).
If you wanna plug direct in the amp, a proper "treble bleed" in the guitar should keep a good tone when the volume is lowered - I won't recommend any recipe here: treble bleeds need to be designed according to the pickups and cable used. But I obtain good results with something like a 700pf styroflex cap and I most often add to it a resistor in series (schematic here: http://s114.photobucket.com/user/666markt/media/Treble-Bleed-Diagram.jpg.html ).

As you play for several decades, I'm not sure to bring anything new for you. But maybe one of the schematics that I've posted above will be useful for you or for someone else...

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Very Good Thread. With every repeat comes two more ways to look at things. This should all be distilled into a one paragraph "Pledge of Guitar Etiquette".

I wish I could show this all to him but he might take it very negative before even reading it. He could be quite offended that I asked insight into this situation.

The situation as you have described it thus far suggests that this is what will happen.

The bandleader guy clearly feels a need to hold complete control. His fear of losing control extends to rejecting the suggestions of others - even when those suggestions are clearly at least as good as his own. In fact, the very notion that others might be giving thought to making/taking such decisions for themselves will trouble Mr. Bandleader.

Getting on for ten years ago, I found myself involved in the Sideperson role to a very demanding/sensitive passive/aggressive control freak band leader. Knowing this, I chose to deliberately make a comment that I knew would trigger a swift and permanent parting of the ways.

The guy (who must remain nameless) still has a MySpace page on which he continues to post old recordings and promises "tour dates soon". File under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_one_cares_about_your_garage_band