I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

[SJ318]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Thanks,
again good thoughts and ideas. Freefrog - thanks for those sites you posted. Been meaning to try a treble bleed for years.
The question about "G12's was meant to be G12 greenback about 20 yrs old, not heritage or any other. How would that sound against a V30, also about 20 years old. Blues jr.III for both speakers, everything equal.
Funkfingers, I'll owe you a 5 spot if you tell us what you said to that guy.
SJ

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Dude, if you guys are arguing about who is too loud and what gear you are allowed or not allowed to use then you probably are best off looking for different bands.
Working with others is about a whole lot more than gear and chops.

 

[Aceman]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

OMG - is this really that hard? I have NO patience for this BS. It is about THE EFFING AUDIENCE!!!!!!!!! Have someone - not either of you guys stand out there and listen. Then, play and have them set rhythm levels and solo levels. Done.

How old are you guys and how long have you been doing this? Seriously.


Send me a plane ticket, and I'll show you how to throw my freaking 100 watt Marshall in there, set two volumes, and work it all just perfectly. There is no freaking need for other gear.

#1 Drums are probably whatever they are unless the drummer is fantastic.
#2 Set the bass to that
#3 Rhythm guitar mix - volume and eq
#4 Vocal mic
#5 Solo levels

Have ANYONE (except his or your wife stand and listen) giving the thumbs up/down signal.

 

[Guitaraxz]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

We shouldn't confuse decibels (loud) with watts (power). I will cuote Billy Penn on this:

" There is also the issue of speaker efficiency to consider as well. The efficiency of a speaker which is also called “sensitivity” is a measure of the speaker’s output (in decibels) with a specific amount of amplifier power (watts). Most often this is calculated by placing a microphone that is connected to a sound level meter at a distance of one meter away from the speaker. One watt of power is then sent to the speaker while the sound level meter measures the loudness in decibels. The output level results in a measure of efficiency. Another way to look at it is how efficiently does the speaker use the power. For example a speaker rated at 90dB will take twice the amplifier power to be the same volume as another speaker rated at 93 dB efficiency just like in our Marshall 50 watt vs 100 watt example. By the same token a speaker rated at 93dB will need ten times more power than a speaker with a 103 dB efficiency rating to be at the same volume. So you can now see how a relatively low powered amp with highly efficient speakers can be louder than a higher powered amp with much less efficient speakers. I’ve actually seen this situation a few times over the years."

Read the article here http://www.300guitars.com/articles/amplifier-loudness-watts-and-decibels/

Acording to Billy Penn you can solve your problem by changing the speaker to one with less sensitivity instead of changing your amp to one of less watts. Read the article and chew on it!

 

[dotsdad]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Funkfingers, I'll owe you a 5 spot if you tell us what you said to that guy.
SJ

^^^ +1 ^^^

:haha:

 

[Aceman]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

We shouldn't confuse decibels (loud) with watts (power). I will cuote Billy Penn on this:

" There is also the issue of speaker efficiency to consider as well. The efficiency of a speaker which is also called “sensitivity” is a measure of the speaker’s output (in decibels) with a specific amount of amplifier power (watts). Most often this is calculated by placing a microphone that is connected to a sound level meter at a distance of one meter away from the speaker. One watt of power is then sent to the speaker while the sound level meter measures the loudness in decibels. The output level results in a measure of efficiency. Another way to look at it is how efficiently does the speaker use the power. For example a speaker rated at 90dB will take twice the amplifier power to be the same volume as another speaker rated at 93 dB efficiency just like in our Marshall 50 watt vs 100 watt example. By the same token a speaker rated at 93dB will need ten times more power than a speaker with a 103 dB efficiency rating to be at the same volume. So you can now see how a relatively low powered amp with highly efficient speakers can be louder than a higher powered amp with much less efficient speakers. I’ve actually seen this situation a few times over the years."

Read the article here http://www.300guitars.com/articles/amplifier-loudness-watts-and-decibels/

Acording to Billy Penn you can solve your problem by changing the speaker to one with less sensitivity instead of changing your amp to one of less watts. Read the article and chew on it!

Or, you could just set your rhythm / solo levels better with the volume knobs….

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Funkfingers, I'll owe you a 5 spot if you tell us what you said to that guy. SJ

GENERAL BACK STORY
Instrumental trio recording project. Promises of commercial release and promotional tour of UK.

COMMENT DAY BACK STORY
Continuing (highly imprecise) promises of imminent relocation to London for recording sessions and tour rehearsals.



I had been provided with a CD of three or four new home computer recordings for which I was expected to devise bass parts. Taking these to be incomplete demos, I described the guitar solos as "place-holders".

Conversation over. Goodbye. :wave:

This was premeditated. I did not have the humiliating moment of reloading my gear into my car before departing because, that day, I never bothered unloading any of it in the first instance.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Thanks,
again good thoughts and ideas. Freefrog - thanks for those sites you posted. Been meaning to try a treble bleed for years.
The question about "G12's was meant to be G12 greenback about 20 yrs old, not heritage or any other. How would that sound against a V30, also about 20 years old. Blues jr.III for both speakers, everything equal.
Funkfingers, I'll owe you a 5 spot if you tell us what you said to that guy.
SJ

25-watt Greenback M? Yeah, if that's it, that's not going to be as loud as a V30 using the same amp settings, granted both are the same ohms.

Greenback M's have more speaker breakup than V30's, the highs might be ever so slightly more airy, but the upper-mid spike V30's are known for is definitely not there, so they might come across as less harsh. They have slightly more emphasis on chunky low mids than V30's.

 

[SJ318]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Aceman-
comment 43 - I already said several times that is exactly what I want to do. I am not stubborn. I already know these things. I already said I could bring a 100 watt Marshall and get a perfect loudness between us (with a couple good pedals).
That is the first thing I said. Not to be rude, but it sounds like you did not read the whole thread. I thank you for chiming in, and please, lets not ruin this by arguing. The guy did not want to let me turn my amp down and balance with him.
I already asked and I am certainly willing to compromise, but this guy is fixated, and he didn't respond well to what you and I both said. So I agree with you 100%. I wish YOU were the other guy, we would get along famously.
Your attitude is what I wish my guy had.
Thanks,
SJB

 

[SJ318]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

I must say one very important thing -
This guy, besides being bullheaded, is my best friend. Apart from this playing disagreement, we get along very well. I love the guy, but this kind of thing only happens in playing situations, and often times talk on the phone for 1 or even 2 hours.
Anyway, that still doesn't change the situation. It should though.
Rex-rocker and Funkfingers, thank you on the Celestion info, very useful, YouTube is just to hard to hear nuance on those vids. Also Ffingers thanks for the back story, good stuff.
SJ

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

I am not stubborn. ... The guy did not want to let me turn my amp down and balance with him.
I am certainly willing to compromise ... this guy is fixated ...

... besides being bullheaded, is my best friend.

The guy is still a prima donna control freak.

Any reasonable person, wishing to serve the music, would accept the straightforward level balancing notion that Aceman proposed. Better monitors might help. A trip to the doctor for a hearing test may be advisable.

Funkfingers thanks for the back story, good stuff.

You probably needed to be there to fully appreciate the situation. The guy's face was a picture. I knew that he would explode with rage. I knew that he would "fire" me - even though I had never been formally hired, let alone reimbursed for my expenses to date. Most importantly, I allowed him to think that my departure was his idea. (Control freaks like/need to think that everything is their idea.) Truth was, it was my means of escape.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

It is about THE EFFING AUDIENCE!!!!!!!!!

+1 to this

 

[SJ318]

Re: I want to ask the PU group this question, not other groups, for many reasons

Funkfingers-
I know that face. It is either medium hot or boiling. Seems there is not many levels of that. 6 months ago, same thing happened to me (diiff situation, same stubborn stance) called the others and said if this was not resolved by next rehearsal, I'm leaving. They agreed, things had gone to far in a bad direction, but they asked me to try and stick it out. So I did. It happened next rehearsal. I got up, took my guitar off, and was about to do the walk of "I've had enough" when he flipped 180 degrees. He must have seen my face(maybe someone told him what was up.)
treyhaislip-
+1 to what you just said!
Any other thoughts of wisdom and I'll guess it's time to close this thread. I'll wait till midnight Pacific time. Thanks everyone!
Good job!
SJ