Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

[Archer250]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

I was just told that Edge Zero II has changeable knife blades.

I wouldn't worry about that at all. Unlike the baseplate itself, the knife edges are VERY solid. Good performance trem, but has potential to be a headache.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Holy ****. It literally says these GUITARS are MIJ, nothing about the TREM at ALL.

Almost all of those guitars also have DiMarzios from the factory. Are you telling me they manufacture DiMarzios in Japan, too?

Little man, in the western block MIA >= MIJ >> MIC . Everybody would think that putting a MIA part in a MIJ product is an upgrade, while putting an inferior part from some inferior country would strip the product from the MIJ badge/"certification".
Are you suggesting that the Edge Zero is Chinese? Cause if true that would bring the entire western system of values down. Think again.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

I was just told that Edge Zero II has changeable knife blades.

Those are hardened steel. Unlikely to be the cause of problems. If you are unlucky with stripping some thread on the intonation holes, then I can send you detailed instructions on how to fix this, or just send it to some machinist in your 'hood. With under 30 EUR you should be set. But we are splitting thin hair. Archer was in some unlucky minority (or just extremely awkward) when he damaged his. Its not a big deal really.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Little man, in the western block MIA >= MIJ >> MIC . Everybody would think that putting a MIA part in a MIJ product is an upgrade, while putting an inferior part from some inferior country would strip the product from the MIJ badge/"certification".
Are you suggesting that the Edge Zero is Chinese? Cause if true that would bring the entire western system of values down. Think again.

MIA Fenders literally have pots made in Taiwan. You can find Chinese tubes many western-made amps. Hell, the proudly Made In England JVM410H has Shuguangs in them. Suhrs didn't lose value when they switched from German OFRs to Japanese Gotohs

And let's not forget, they put the ZR2 (which is just a ZR with a new arm holder) on Japanese S Prestiges, AND the SAME ZPS3 system in EVERYTHING from Indonesian guitars to Jap Prestiges.


If you can't put parts made from "inferior" countries in your product without facing legal action, then congrats. Ibanez, Fender, Jackson, everyone, hell even guys at SD have been Jewing you out of money for MIJ/MIA labels.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

MIA Fenders literally have pots made in Taiwan. You can find Chinese tubes many western-made amps. Hell, the proudly Made In England JVM410H has Shuguangs in them. Suhrs didn't lose value when they switched from German OFRs to Japanese Gotohs

And let's not forget, they put the ZR2 (which is just a ZR with a new arm holder) on Japanese S Prestiges, AND the SAME ZPS3 system in EVERYTHING from Indonesian guitars to Jap Prestiges.


If you can't put parts made from "inferior" countries in your product without facing legal action, then congrats. Ibanez, Fender, Jackson, everyone, hell even guys at SD have been Jewing you out of money for MIJ/MIA labels.

In the western book of values Germany ~~ Japan (equally respected), so your MIG OFR vs MIJ Gotoh analogy is void. Asian electronics are usually accepted in western products, cause they can barely be seen without dismantling the product. So there goes your pots/tubes argument as well. Same is true for very simple parts, like ZPS3 which is just a system of springs + some tension control parts. No drama here either.

Now if you want to attack my argument, you gotta find the SAME trem in a J-custom/Prestige and the same trem in a Premium/IronLabel and lower. Good luck.

I bet the plate in Edge Zero is steel and not softer metal like in -II. How many failed Edge Zero's have you heard of?

 

[Archer250]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

In the western book of values Germany ~~ Japan (equally respected), so your MIG OFR vs MIJ Gotoh analogy is void. Asian electronics are usually accepted in western products, cause they can barely be seen without dismantling the product. So there goes your pots/tubes argument as well. Same is true for very simple parts, like ZPS3 which is just a system of springs + some tension control parts. No drama here either.

Now if you want to attack my argument, you gotta find the SAME trem in a J-custom/Prestige and the same trem in a Premium/IronLabel and lower. Good luck.

I bet the plate in Edge Zero is steel and not softer metal like in -II. How many failed Edge Zero's have you heard of?

A few years ago, you can find Japanese S prestiges with ZR2 trems. Literally the same trem as the Chinese ZR. The only difference being the arm holder. And seriously. Is your argument based on any written trade guideline, or are they just as arbitrary as your goalposts? Hell, back when they were making Korean Prestiges, the S series had the EXACT same trem as the Indonesian ones later have.

Apparently, the Gibraltar bridge has been in use for several models from different countries, too. You can find it in normal, Prestige, Premium and Iron Label guitars.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

^^^ many flaws in your logic, as usual. Gibraltar? Please. This thing costs 50 USD. Edge Zero II costs about 300 USD and Edge (your favorite all-timer) about 330 USD. Prove that Edge Zero and Edge Zero II SHARE THE SAME METALLURGY AND SAME METAL ALLOY. Find me ONE Prestige/J-Custom with the Edge Zero-II and one Premium or lower with the Edge Zero. Don't try to get away deviating the topic.

http://www.ibanezrules.com/parts.htm : between edge zero and edge zero II there is a 50 USD difference, are you still claiming same quality?

 

[Archer250]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Now if you want to attack my argument, you gotta find the SAME trem in a J-custom/Prestige and the same trem in a Premium/IronLabel and lower. Good luck.

Everybody would think that putting a MIA part in a MIJ product is an upgrade, while putting an inferior part from some inferior country would strip the product from the MIJ badge/"certification".
Are you suggesting that the Edge Zero is Chinese? Cause if true that would bring the entire western system of values down. Think again.

^^^ many flaws in your logic, as usual. Gibraltar? Please. This thing costs 50 USD. Edge Zero II costs about 300 USD and Edge (your favorite all-timer) about 330 USD. Prove that Edge Zero and Edge Zero II SHARE THE SAME METALLURGY AND SAME METAL ALLOY. Find me ONE Prestige/J-Custom with the Edge Zero-II and one Premium or lower with the Edge Zero. Don't try to get away deviating the topic.

http://www.ibanezrules.com/parts.htm : between edge zero and edge zero II there is a 50 USD difference, are you still claiming same quality?

>begged the question that a bridge must be from nation with higher positioning
>asked for counter examples
>dismissed 1 example and failed to address the second
>uses price as proof of quality

^ I can "refute" this, too

http://shop.ibanez.com/c/parts-accessories_electric-guitar-parts_bridges-and-tremolos

Here, you can see that the ZR 1.1 and the Lo-Pro Edge have about $10 difference. I doubt the veracity and the sanity of people who claim that these two are similar in quality. Of course, the technologies are different. And that's same here, too. The EZ has an intonation adjustment tool the EZ II does not have... which is a part of their patent

And since you already used Rich Harris as a source, allow me to do the same.

http://www.ibanezrules.com/namm/2008/hardware.htm

And lest you pull the "metallurgically prove that they're the same". I'd point out that you have not proven that the EZ is of substantially higher metallurgical quality either. And even IF either of us were to produce proof, it would not end there. Yes, it would answer that they are either the same or different, but it would not prove its origins either, which is a big part of your argument. LO-TRS trems Takeuchi made for Ibanez and Jackson are not equal to hardware made by Gotoh, even though both are Japanese. If we accept hearsay, then the LO-TRS and the LO-TRS II are not equal either, despite being made by the same manufacturer. Yet, according to your second quote in this reply, they would add value to an instrument by virtue of being MIJ.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Since your failures are repetitive in pattern, and your only defence is random noise and deviation from the subject mixing as many irrelevant false assumptions as possible, I won't fall to the little silly traps you set, lets get back to the basics. Let's get back to your original gem.

The Edge Zero sucks. Avoid it like the plague.

You don't know what you are talking about. Just because one single awkward amateur ruined his Edge Zero II (cough cough...), it does not imply anything about the HIGH END Edge Zero's.

The goalposts are right there, standing still, Mister, but you won't score any goals soon.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Lol I was also browsing fixed bridges... And as I guessed : COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TREMS FOR PRESTIGE vs PREMIUMS.... AGAIN!! lmao!! no overlap NOT EVEN in a single damn guitar!!

GOAL 1.
Instead of trying to cheat by referring to hypothetical cases of the past, post the real deal NOW. My challenge stands: FIND ME ONE PRESTIGE and ONE PREMIUM WITH THE SAME TREM/HARDWARE.

(after you get passed goal 1, - you won't) then proceed to goal 2:
GOAL 2.
Find me ONE single person with a failed Edge Zero - (~~ PRESTIGE).

(after you pass 2, then go on to 3)

GOAL 3.
Explain why do you spread FUD on the internet about things you never owned or known? It is like bashing Porches and Audis just because your tiny Skoda let you down (after driving it without engine oil, past the 6000 RPM mark for some 100 Km ).


PS
I didn't invent the country of origin philosophy. Personally I find this extra silly, but is a common granted for most people dealing the guitars, and also this forum and most forums as well. Also this is smth that the guitar makers follow with great consistency, according to the designated class-sector of their products.


++++ our concern here is not country!!. Our concern is QUALITY.

Still waiting for one single case with a failed Edge Zero (MIC or MIJ it does not matter) stripped threads.


^^^^^^^^


ALRIGHT?????

 

[Archer250]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Since your failures are repetitive in pattern, and your only defence is random noise and deviation from the subject mixing as many irrelevant false assumptions as possible, I won't fall to the little silly traps you set, lets get back to the basics. Let's get back to your original gem.

You don't know what you are talking about. Just because one single awkward amateur ruined his Edge Zero II (cough cough...), it does not imply anything about the HIGH END Edge Zero's.

The goalposts are right there, standing still, Mister, but you won't score any goals soon.

Again, you beg the question that they're high end and different IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

pcorn: pcorn:

 

[Archer250]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Lol I was also browsing fixed bridges... And as I guessed : COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TREMS FOR PRESTIGE vs PREMIUMS.... AGAIN!! lmao!! no overlap NOT EVEN in a single damn guitar!!

GOAL 1.
Instead of trying to cheat by referring to hypothetical cases of the past, post the real deal NOW. My challenge stands: FIND ME ONE PRESTIGE and ONE PREMIUM WITH THE SAME TREM/HARDWARE.

(after you get passed goal 1, - you won't) then proceed to goal 2:
GOAL 2.
Find me ONE single person with a failed Edge Zero - (~~ PRESTIGE).

lol. First it was "Prestige and a Premium/Iron Label or lower" with the same hardware. Now it's "Prestige and a Premium"

You literally moved the goal to exclude lines other than a very small pool of guitars. Does that matter at all? No it doesn't! Here: Japanese Prestige http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/page15_jp.php?cat_id=1&series_id=3&data_id=189&color=CL01

Indonesian Iron Label: http://www.ibanez.com/products/eg_p...4&cat_id=1&series_id=4&data_id=163&color=CL01
Jap Prestige: http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/S770PB (the only thing upgraded here is the arm, redesigned to prevent usual ZR shenanigans)

(heh. The pickups are better, too)

Korean Prestige: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...ge-series-electric-guitar-figured-bubinga-top
Normal Indo: http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/S770PB



Here's goal 2
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1688098
http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f21/ibanez-edge-zero-cheap-metal-reminder-115292.html


Goal 3: I've owned an EZ II. I've been told that EZ and EZ II are of similar quality. The end.


But why do I bother. You're the guy who spent a year too long fixing a guitar after everybody else dissuaded you. I'd applaud your tenacity, if it weren't for your obstinacy. You're gonna find some excuse, some way to slip or some words to swap to move your goals again, and again, and again until the mods get fed up with both of us.

I think I've wasted enough time on this thread.

To the OP. Buy the newer one. The trem is a solid performer, and if problems arise (like it did me and a number of others), it's not a hard fix if you're careful (I actually fixed mine before selling the guitar altogether). I admit my original post was emotionally charged, and thus forget that there are countless other people who have had no problems with their guitar at all, and mine was just a lemon right out of the box.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

As far as I know, as far back as 2013:

Original Edge: Only on MIJ Prestige models.
Edge Zero: Only on MIJ Prestige models.
Edge Zero II: Only on MII Premium and regular models (RG, S).
Gibraltar Standard: Only on MII models (RG, RGA, and probably other models).

of course +1

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

lol. First it was "Prestige and a Premium/Iron Label or lower" with the same hardware. Now it's "Prestige and a Premium"

You literally moved the goal to exclude lines other than a very small pool of guitars. Does that matter at all? No it doesn't! Here: Japanese Prestige http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/page15_jp.php?cat_id=1&series_id=3&data_id=189&color=CL01

Indonesian Iron Label: http://www.ibanez.com/products/eg_p...4&cat_id=1&series_id=4&data_id=163&color=CL01
Jap Prestige: http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/S770PB (the only thing upgraded here is the arm, redesigned to prevent usual ZR shenanigans)

(heh. The pickups are better, too)

Korean Prestige: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...ge-series-electric-guitar-figured-bubinga-top
Normal Indo: http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/S770PB



Here's goal 2
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1688098
http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f21/ibanez-edge-zero-cheap-metal-reminder-115292.html


Goal 3: I've owned an EZ II. I've been told that EZ and EZ II are of similar quality. The end.


But why do I bother. You're the guy who spent a year too long fixing a guitar after everybody else dissuaded you. I'd applaud your tenacity, if it weren't for your obstinacy. You're gonna find some excuse, some way to slip or some words to swap to move your goals again, and again, and again until the mods get fed up with both of us.

I think I've wasted enough time on this thread.

To the OP. Buy the newer one. The trem is a solid performer, and if problems arise (like it did me and a number of others), it's not a hard fix if you're careful (I actually fixed mine before selling the guitar altogether). I admit my original post was emotionally charged, and thus forget that there are countless other people who have had no problems with their guitar at all, and mine was just a lemon right out of the box.

dude stop playing with words : premium vs premium/iron label.... It sucks. Want me to make a mega production about "Indo Iron Label"?? Cause IR are strictly MIC, AFAIK.

Ok, so nominally you did Goal 1. (those guitars are not in the euro line cause I coulnd't find them). But the reality is there : overlap in hardware between premium and prestige is MINIMAL.
Also you found TommyQue with the 3 all-in-all posts and the very well known thread of Dimitar (I had read that countless times before I decided to buy this particular UV70p). So lets say, that you did Goal 2 as well.
But 3???? "AVOID LIKE A PLAGUE" ??? gimme a break.. This is simply misinformation.

Ibanez has DICONTINUED Edge-7 trem, at least judging by Rich's catalogs. They use Edge Zero mostly in their high end 7-string models.
What you claim above is literally : AVOID IBANEZ 7-strings like a plague???

About my Ibby, very few could diagnose it, and you (and others "desuadders") were not among them. I don't regret fixing it in the slightest.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

I admit my original post was emotionally charged, and thus forget that there are countless other people who have had no problems with their guitar at all, and mine was just a lemon right out of the box.

Phewww... it was about time. But then again even if it stripped, I told you countless times that the fix is 10 mins work and you made it sound like the sky is falling.

 

[Peter Krasov]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Well guys, while we were discussing these two models, the Japanese one was sold, so I went and bought the S 520. First impressions:
- Neck is awsome. Though I prefer thick necks like Fender U's or fat C's, this slim Ibanez neck is very comfortable. The neck feel is way better than on my RG540.
-The shape of guitar is great also - very comfortable guitar, and good looking with beautiful finish.
- The trem feels solid, have not come across any issues with it yet. Zinc sustain block is awful thouh, and will be replaced.
- INF pickups felt like 50/50. The neck one is okay, the bridge is fairly thin.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Well guys, while we were discussing these two models, the Japanese one was sold, so I went and bought the S 520. First impressions:
- Neck is awsome. Though I prefer thick necks like Fender U's or fat C's, this slim Ibanez neck is very comfortable. The neck feel is way better than on my RG540.
-The shape of guitar is great also - very comfortable guitar, and good looking with beautiful finish.
- The trem feels solid, have not come across any issues with it yet. Zinc sustain block is awful thouh, and will be replaced.
- INF pickups felt like 50/50. The neck one is okay, the bridge is fairly thin.

View attachment 69612

Yeah, the Wizard III is a rather comfortable slim neck. I say it's the thinnest I can go. RG540 has the original wizard, right? That's a bit too thin for my tastes haha. Be a bit careful when reassembling the trem. Even if you don't F up the baseplate like me, there's a possibility you can strip the screw's heads (the fix is even easier and cheaper, though), and may affect the resell value.

I never met a single person who liked the INFs.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

- Peter : congrats man! I am sure this one with Fokin will surely rock! Don't be so sure about the trem block sounding bad. Zinc is put on MIA fenders as well with no complaints, but...
- Archer bro, Peter mentioned changing the trem block, from my long research I didn't find any Edge Zero-II replacements in the market, except those turkish guys, who albeit cool, they are expensive.(We are tanking plain simple Edge Zero II with no ZPS )

 

[Peter Krasov]

Re: Ibanez S 440 Japan or new Ibanez S 520

Thank Greekdude

MIA Fenders use steel blocks; anyway I don't know about Special and Highway models. Zinc blocks are default for Mexican models. Anyway I strongly disliked them on Squiers and Mex Standards and prefer to get solid steel or brass.

- Peter : congrats man! I am sure this one with Fokin will surely rock! Don't be so sure about the trem block sounding bad. Zinc is put on MIA fenders as well with no complaints, but...
- Archer bro, Peter mentioned changing the trem block, from my long research I didn't find any Edge Zero-II replacements in the market, except those turkish guys, who albeit cool, they are expensive.(We are tanking plain simple Edge Zero II with no ZPS )