Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

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Took this home from the store last night. Very playable, no string buzz, awesome array of tones, and feels good on the left hand. Still getting to know it... but so far I think she's a winner! Last bass I took home was also an Ibanez... the SRC6 crossover short-scale six string (tuned an octave below a guitar). Also a great bass!

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Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

How does your wrist feel after playing at the first few frets for a while?
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

I've been really interested in getting ahold of one of these to play around with. I don't normally mess around with the 5 string, but I like new toys haha
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

Very cool - the inspiration for my 5 string build
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

You never answered my question about how your wrist feels after playing for a while at the first few frets. The reason I ask:

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Every one of these pictures (except for the guy in the stocking cap) shows what the wrist looks like when it is in a natural, relaxed position. To get the hand aligned with the first couple of frets, the wrist has to bend in an unnatural position. I have tried it, and it causes me pain to the point where it is impossible to play -- but I have limited mobility in my wrists, so my experience doesn't predict how people with healthy wrists would respond. It's entirely possible that someone with healthy wrists might be able to align their hands with the first few frets with no pain at all. But I strongly suspect that playing in such a position is not good for the long term health of the wrists.
 
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Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

I'm not familiar with the intention behind the design--is it supposed to have improved intonation or designed for playing comfort?



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Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

I have played them, and cannot stand them.
The idea behind it has several reasons.

1 - All other instruments such as drums, brass, woodwind etc all get physically bigger as the pitch is lowered. Compare a trumpet to a tuba, or a snare to a kick drum.
Just like speakers, tweeters and subs. The sound emitting device is physically larger.
So therefore wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the strings should be longer as the pitch decreases?

2 - intonation.
Apparently it intonated better as the longer scale dilutes small inaccuracies in the larger strings.

3 - ergonomics. I had it sold to me by a luthier that builds these that to play an F bar chord on a normal guitar causes problems and pain and potential long term damage, whereas this allows your wrist to lazily flop into an F chord more naturally.

On all points I disagree.

First, the pitch / size argument.
If all strings were the same thickness, yes.
But what he overlooked was the fact that each string is already 'bigger' in it's diameter and physical mass. So the 'bigger for lower pitch' argument is redundant.

Second, the intonation.
The six string guitar I played had intonation problems on the G and low E strings.
Sound familiar?
If you know how to set up a normal guitar properly, it's not a big problem. And a simple thing like a compensated nut will do more for your intonation than fanned frets.

Third, feels like crap. It hurt.
I could not play many chords such as 9th chords (root, 5th, 9th) or bar chords comfortably.

Everyone is different, and it nay work for you, but after spending some time playing one I wouldnt take one if you gave it to me.
Hate em.
 
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Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

I'm not familiar with the intention behind the design--is it supposed to have improved intonation or designed for playing comfort?

It's kinda like the old 55 mph speed limit. It started off as a means to force people to use less gasoline, but then the safety people jumped in and claimed it was all about safety.

Fanned frets started out as a means to have a longer B string. B strings tend to suffer from shorter scales. A longer B string means it can be thinner and under higher tension, which makes it harmonically richer. But you can't really have one string be a different scale than four other strings that are the same scale, so instead, the fanned fret concept all the strings to be different scales. It works great for that purpose.

But after that, the ergonomics people started claiming fanned frets were great for ergonomics. Usually, to prove their point, they will say something like, "Your fingers naturally fan when you play a bass, and the frets just match the fan of your fingers." And that's even a little bit true. The problem is in order for your fingers to do that, your hand and wrist first have to get them into position.
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

I have played them, and cannot stand them.
The idea behind it has several reasons.

1 - All other instruments such as drums, brass, woodwind etc all get physically bigger as the pitch is lowered. Compare a trumpet to a tuba, or a snare to a kick drum.
Just like speakers, tweeters and subs. The sound emitting device is physically larger.
So therefore wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the strings should be longer as the pitch decreases?

2 - intonation.
Apparently it intonated better as the longer scale dilutes small inaccuracies in the larger strings.

3 - ergonomics. I had it sold to me by a luthier that builds these that to play an F bar chord on a normal guitar causes problems and pain and potential long term damage, whereas this allows your wrist to lazily flop into an F chord more naturally.

On all points I disagree.

First, the pitch / size argument.
If all strings were the same thickness, yes.
But what he overlooked was the fact that each string is already 'bigger' in it's diameter and physical mass. So the 'bigger for lower pitch' argument is redundant.

Second, the intonation.
The six string guitar I played had intonation problems on the G and low E strings.
Sound familiar?
If you know how to set up a normal guitar properly, it's not a big problem. And a simple thing like a compensated nut will do more for your intonation than fanned frets.

Third, feels like crap. It hurt.
I could not play many chords such as 9th chords (root, 5th, 9th) or bar chords comfortably.

Everyone is different, and it nay work for you, but after spending some time playing one I wouldnt take one if you gave it to me.
Hate em.
Last time I tried playing barre chords on a bass, everyone in the band started throwing things at me. *rimshot* ;)

Other than that, I grant that the fanned-fret bass doesn't work for me, either.
In order to move up and down the neck, I had to pivot my wrist to make the right intonation. Not comfortable for me.

However, everyone's experience is subjective. My hands are bigger than most (long fingers, big palms). I don't really need a fanned fret neck.
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

However, everyone's experience is subjective.
Yes.


My hands are bigger than most (long fingers, big palms). I don't really need a fanned fret neck.
Actually, I think longer fingers would work better with fanned frets than shorter fingers.

If you look at the pictures I posted above, with each of the players, their fingers are a full 90 degrees off from the first fret. You are right about the wrist having to pivot, and I think for people with short fingers to reach the C on the B string, their wrists would have to torque even more than someone with longer fingers.
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

I've always heard/read that the fanned fret setup was supposed to help with intonation more than playing comfort. The idea being that you can set up a normal guitar for perfect intonation at the lower frets (1-7 or 1-9) but things start going wonky along the higher frets, and you have to reset the intonation for playing higher up.

Assuming of course you can think of a perfectly good reason as to why you'd spend that much time in the higher registers, and did not possess the skill to bend the strings to compensate as you were playing. Apparently it's something to do with anal retention in the studio.

With the fanned frets, you're supposed to be able to play anywhere on the neck and the intonation will be perfect.

But then I'm looking at the entire history of guitar-based music and asking "what's the problem?"
This is apparently a fictional problem based in OCD (Over-reacting Crackhead Disorder).
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

I'm not sure how much application fanned frets have on bass, but where they really shine is on extended range guitars; particularly on an 8-string tuned B-A. A low-B string intonates best on a 25.5" scale or longer; I've seen several in the 26.5-28" range. OTOH a high-A string needs to be made differently and reinforced on a 25.5" scale, or be prone to breakage. I've seen these special reinforced strings sell for $5-10 each which gets to be a little expensive if they're changed frequently. The preferred solution I've seen is a fan with a 23.5" scale on the A and a 27" scale on the B. I'll admit that outside of instrumental shred guitar the instrument is almost useless, but that seems to be its best application.
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

3 - ergonomics. I had it sold to me by a luthier that builds these that to play an F bar chord on a normal guitar causes problems and pain and potential long term damage, whereas this allows your wrist to lazily flop into an F chord more naturally.

I was wondering about this because the F bar chord is hard for me to get "right" on all of my guitars. All other bar chords sound great but I consistently have trouble with the F bar chord...interesting concept and discussion for sure!
 
Re: Ibanez SRFF805 fan fret bass...

Playing on a fanned fret instrument is not going to help you with playing an F chord. Check out the photos above of the fanned fret basses, and note how the bar finger is oriented compared to the first fret. (It's not.) A fanned fret guitar is not going to be any different. You certainly are not going to be able to "flop" your hand into a bar chord on the first fret unless your hand is on your wrist backwards.

You are much better off attempting a bar F on a guitar with normal frets, perpendicular to the length of the neck.
 
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