If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups?

GuitarStv

Sock Market Trader
I've got a couple electric guitars. Some are louder than others. Unfortunately, they've all got different pickups. Does an electric that's louder acoustically end up being louder through the amp, all other things being equal? My intuition would be no . . . because pickups just translate the vibration of your strings into a signal. A guitar can be louder because the body resonates without actually making the strings vibrate more. But I haven't actually done an experiment to check this.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

Well a louder guitar implies a better resonant loop and thus more efficient energy transfer perhaps in the string waveform motion which would directly induce more electrical energy in the pickup circuit BUT with semi hollow bodies and holly bodies, all of this energy is not returned in the same manner -so for a louder solid body having higher output -I'd say yes. but for acoustically chambered or bodies instruments -it would be very complicated to know.

Obviously Pickup proximity to the string waveform is the biggest factor in overall passive output.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

The body can’t make the strings vibrate more; the laws of physics dictate that the string will lose energy over time. Materials in the guitar will absorb that energy at greater or lesser rates, starting with the bridge saddles and nut. If the guitar string has enough energy after that point, it will subsequently make the guitar body vibrate/resonate as it loses energy to the body at whatever rate. The body resonates and moves air molecules around it. So a larger resonation/ loud unplugged sound are a side effect of the string having enough energy to do that, vs. say another instrument, where the string’s energy is lost more quickly (maybe a loose bridge saddle, or mechanical connections/materials that damp enough of the string energy before it gets to the body. The first guitar would have a louder plugged and unplugged sound, the latter quieter.
 
Last edited:
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

Sound is energy lost from the system, which would sap the vibration of the string wouldn't it? That would actually indicate that for electric guitars the quietest body/neck combo acoustically would likely cause the string to resonate better.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

Sound is energy lost from the system, which would sap the vibration of the string wouldn't it? That would actually indicate that for electric guitars the quietest body/neck combo acoustically would likely cause the string to resonate better.

Maybe - But wood *does* resonate/move sound molecules when you apply energy to it (as a string does) - and most guitars are made of wood. If you're talking about a string embedded between two nails in a concrete parking lot, then nothing will resonate and the plucked string will probably be very quiet, but vibrate strong/for a very long time. If you're talking an acoustic guitar, then you will have a lot of resonance/movement of air molecules, but the string vibration will be damped and as a result won't sustain as long as between two nails embedded in a parking lot. Materials/mass has an effect, and any two different solid body electrics are somewhere between those two extremes; the wood vibrates because it does, and it needs more string energy in the first place in order to resonate more.
 
Last edited:
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

The body can’t make the strings vibrate more; the laws of physics dictate that the string will lose energy over time. Materials in the guitar will absorb that energy at greater or lesser rates, starting with the bridge saddles and nut. If the guitar string has enough energy after that point, it will subsequently make the guitar body vibrate/resonate as it loses energy to the body at whatever rate. The body resonates and moves air molecules around it. So a larger resonation/ loud unplugged sound are a side effect of the string having enough energy to do that, vs. say another instrument, where the string’s energy is lost more quickly (maybe a loose bridge saddle, or mechanical connections/materials that damp enough of the string energy before it gets to the body. The first guitar would have a louder plugged and unplugged sound, the latter quieter.

The body and resonate loop through the bridge nut and tuners through the stiffness and material of the neck and body dictates efficiency -ie energy preserved and lost in the string motion and thus more energy induced into the pickups.

So yes the body has everything to do with the strings vibration.

I can show you this on a spectral analyzer all day long.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

Somewhat relatedly, I’ve heard people say the unplugged sound quality has little to do with the electric sound quality. I think that’s complete BS, as I’ve never heard a dead POS sound great plugged in, and vice versa.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

The body and resonate loop through the bridge nut and tuners through the stiffness and material of the neck and body dictates efficiency -ie energy preserved and lost in the string motion and thus more energy induced into the pickups.

So yes the body has everything to do with the strings vibration.

I can show you this on a spectral analyzer all day long.

I agree the body affects the string's vibration; but it can't 'add to' the string's vibration, as I interpreted the OP's post. The body couldn't 'boost' the string - but as you state, it can preserve it more or less.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

Don't ask players questions like this and expect to reach a consensus...there isn't any.

Just look at this thread: LINK

For every opinion that the acoustic sound of an electric guitar *does* matter, there's an anecdotal example where it *doesn't*.

Best bet is to 1) Not dismiss a guitar simply because it isn't acoustically vibrant and 2) Plug it in and try it for yourself!
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

Seems like you are just the man for the job to set up an experiment! ;)
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

I agree the body affects the string's vibration; but it can't 'add to' the string's vibration, as I interpreted the OP's post. The body couldn't 'boost' the string - but as you state, it can preserve it more or less.

Yeah, sorry if I implied otherwise. That's exactly what I'm meaning. the resonant loop between the nut and bridge and all of the materials between affect the efficiency of the string energy either resonating at maximum movement or less so -and BTW that's not to suggest that maximum transfer of energy to the string movement will necessarily sound the best for a player of course. -it just will keep as much transduction into the pickup circuit as possible -for good or for bad.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

Don't ask players questions like this and expect to reach a consensus...there isn't any.

Just look at this thread: LINK

For every opinion that the acoustic sound of an electric guitar *does* matter, there's an anecdotal example where it *doesn't*.

Best bet is to 1) Not dismiss a guitar simply because it isn't acoustically vibrant and 2) Plug it in and try it for yourself!

All of it goes into the final tonal product -every material affects the outcome -the question is really -does your ear notice it enough to be worth addressing it? That is if your ear can tell at all? and once you make those decisions, do pedals, amps, speaker, sound reinforcement and other instruments and playing to a largely less than musically knowledgeable audience make any of those upstream guitar nuance tone decisions worth it for the final product.

Considering the world's greatest players will sound unbelievable on a Yamaha Pacifica through a Peavey Bandit -I'd say all the tonal nuances and maximizing our tonal improvements through gear and material selection is really something more important for us less than incredibly gifted players. :lmao:
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

There are several schools of thought on this one; perhaps they would best be called schools of opinion.

What's undeniable is that vibration transferred to the body & neck is lost to the string. This is basic physics.

But opinions differ widely as to how this translates in actual playing.

A string will sustain longer and have better treble response if there is minimal vibration transferred to the body and neck (because high frequencies carry less kinetic energy than lows and so are more easily damped). I think of this as "inherent" sustain. It's why back in the 70s people favored heavy brass hardware and very dense body materials like metal, heavy wood, and even stone.

Necks affect it too, that's why rigid necks have brighter tone with maple generally sounding brighter than mahogany, multi-piece laminated necks being brighter still, and metal necks being brightest of all.

However, not all of us prefer a bright sounding guitar with a very stiff neck. And in a guitar that's louder unplugged, the same easier transfer of energy between strings and instrument also goes the other way when amplified: ambient sound energy vibrating the guitar - especially the neck - can flow more easily back to the strings.

This is the magic of liveliness and you can feel a lively guitar take off at much lower volume than a stiff heavy one. I think of this as "live" sustain.

On another forum that's less welcoming than this one, I was basically dismissed for proposing this. Some tried to cite science which (they said) proves that very little energy can get from the strings to the neck or body.

However, anybody that's actually played a guitar knows that you can feel the body & neck vibrate when played. And science tells us that with very few exceptions, when energy transfer occurs it generally behaves the same way in both directions.

Another angle is that when sound is shared more freely between guitar and strings, the nature of the neck & body will exert more influence on the tone, because there's more energy bled away from the strings and the frequencies affected can vary from one piece of wood to another.

I used to try out a couple of dozen brand new Strats or Les Pauls side by side: same model, same year, same type of wood, same hardware & pickups. They weren't all exactly the same, and some were really quite different from each other.

Myself, I generally favor a more lively feel, even if it isn't as bright, even if it doesn't sustain as long when unplugged. I once had a broken Gibson headstock repaired and when the guitar came back it was brighter but had lost some of its lively feel. I've heard of players who actually prefer repaired headstocks because of the extra brightness, but for me liveliness is paramount. As nice as that Les Paul was, I sold it eventually.

Now, all of that being said - and as comforting as it would be to have a universal formula- none of it is a hard & fast rule. I've had heavy guitars that were still lively at volume, and some guitars that were pretty strong unplugged but didn't really sound great or come alive when amplified.

Generalities are just that, and some guitars will defy preconceptions. As others have said, it isn't wise to write a guitar off just because it doesn't fit a qualification like sounding loud unplugged.

They can surprise you.
 
Last edited:
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

I would think having the pickups unpotted affects this.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

I would think having the pickups unpotted affects this.

I agree. If a guitar has a lively body, unpotted pickups should be more responsive to that than potted ones.
I've been tempted to swap my Antiquities into a different guitar to test this.
But they sound so good where they are that I'm reluctant to remove them.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

Acoustic volume is dependant on the way the body top transfers vibration to surrounding air You can have semihollows much acoustically louder that don't sustain any more or less than other solid bodies that are 'quieter'.......so its not a question of more or less as most people simplistically seem to argue.

The relationship of energy in a guitar is perhaps one of the most misunderstood parts of physics by the layperson ever. For some unknown reason, the notion that you have perhaps 5-10 times the energy you ever put into picking already stored in the guitar at rest is a factor that either escapes people, or they ignore it.
Most/all of your sustain come from this potential energy and the inherent momentum that comes with it. The very dispersal of energy in one extreme of the strings motion (and the minute compression of the wood) merely charges the body/neck to release energy in the opposite direction with very little in the way of loss at all.
So the vibration of the body is in fact the very thing that is helping your guitar maintain its energy.
The string's mass to surface area ratio and the damping effect of air would slow its energy very quickly if you had very little mass or momentum behind it.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

For some unknown reason, the notion that you have perhaps 5-10 times the energy you ever put into picking already stored in the guitar at rest is a factor that either escapes people, or they ignore it.
Most/all of your sustain come from this potential energy and the inherent momentum that comes with it.

That's not how it works. You cannot indefinitely store 5-10 times the energy of the string in the form of potential energy in the body of the guitar. You are proposing that there is perpetually a large amount of potential energy in the guitar ready to be converted to kinetic energy, that never gets burned up. This is a violation of the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

As for the whole acoustic volume versus electric volume, does it really matter? Honestly, I've never had an amp where I felt that at 10 I needed more volume.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

I honestly can't tell which answers are earnest pseudoscience and which ones are bad-faith trolling anymore.
 
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

This question will NEVER get resolved. However, it is interesting to hear different opinions on the subject.

Here's mine...
Since physics was mentioned, the most "elastic" materials will give back the most energy from that which was initially put into the system. We laypeople seem to think that "elastic" means flexible/rubbery/mold-able/reform-able. Sometimes that would seem so. But not quite. You've all seen the toy that has several balls suspended by strings and when the end ball hits the next, the energy is transferred to the opposite end ball without the middle balls moving (ideally). The higher the elasticity of the balls, the more precisely this is true. The hardest, most solid materials are generally the most "elastic" (in physical terms) and the energy produced by that first ball will remain in the system for a long time. If you put rubber balls in this toy, they will bounce well at first, then they will get chaotic, and they will lose energy very quickly.

Acoustic guitars are WAY different creatures than electric guitars. The wood that gives good sound output and great tonal spectrum is usually a soft wood (such as spruce). (How often do you see an acoustic with an ebony soundboard? Not that they don't exist, but there it is a matter of tone preference). For maximum output acoustics are designed with as few moving/unstable parts which absorb energy, as possible (basically the bridge and nut).

There are many factors which cause an electric guitar to sound louder when unplugged. But because of the comparatively small amount that this is (compared to pickups) you can almost take that out of the equation entirely. However, it has been my personal experience that this DOES have an affect on the tone of the guitar when plugged in. The louder unplugged, the fuller the tone plugged in.

My disclaimer...these are generalities and there will always be exceptions.
 
Last edited:
Re: If an electric guitar is acoustically louder, does this translate through pickups

However, it has been my personal experience that this DOES have an affect on the tone of the guitar when plugged in. The louder unplugged, the fuller the tone plugged in.

I don't think I've played a semi-hollow that was quieter unplugged than any solid body guitar, and fully hollow are louder than semi. Do you believe that to have full tone one must therefore play a semi or fully hollow bodied electric?
 
Back
Top