Improv'd melodies

britishgeetah

New member
Well, see I can compose some great stuff when I spend a little time but when I have to compose melodies on the fly, I always resort to Pentatonics. And even worse, it's always the "1-4 1-3 1-3 1-3..." thing, and I can only play in that one box. I know modes and stuff but can never apply them. What do you know about playing changes?
 
Re: Improv'd melodies

You need to stop thinking scales (especially the pentatonic) and start thinking chords. Melody loves chord tones, so you need to spend some time seeing chords for what they really are: selections of notes that occupy the whole fretboard, not just those little chord diagrams. Once you can do that, you can use those notes (for each chord as it comes and goes in the progression) as your main melody notes. When you think along those lines, you never have to worry about outside chords or key changes ... you're always just working around the 'chord of the moment' as I call it, always on track. Of course, you need to know the progression and you need to think ahead a bit, but that's the way I've done it for decades now.

Have a look at these two lessons I posted at YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA4MFLZarGg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjLk94nHqf4
 
Re: Improv'd melodies

I had the opportunity to spend some time with my wife's uncle recently. He was a trumpeter back in the day. He expressed to me how guitar players, pianist and polyphonic instrument players in general have such an advantage over the horn players because of our knowledge of chords and harmony early on.

I chucked because, while it is true that polyphonic instumentalists do become acquainted with chords and harmony earlier in our development than many horn players, that knowledge is often squandered when it comes time to apply it to understanding melodic construct. I see this in guitarists primarily. They set aside all of their knowledge of harmony and chord construction and set out to find some sort of holy grail somewhere in the modes.:laugh2: This modal/scalar method never yields the results that it promises but that doesn't seem to hinder the guitarists from trying! :laugh2:

Its ironic how horn players who lack the ability to play chords on their instrument study harmony in the form of arpeggios on their instrument in order to be able to craft together melodic ideas. In the mean time guitarists who already have knowledge of many dozens of chords and how they're spelled are busy trying to run a bunch of stupid ass scales! :argh:
 
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Re: Improv'd melodies

You need to stop thinking scales (especially the pentatonic) and start thinking chords. Melody loves chord tones, so you need to spend some time seeing chords for what they really are: selections of notes that occupy the whole fretboard, not just those little chord diagrams. Once you can do that, you can use those notes (for each chord as it comes and goes in the progression) as your main melody notes. When you think along those lines, you never have to worry about outside chords or key changes ... you're always just working around the 'chord of the moment' as I call it, always on track. Of course, you need to know the progression and you need to think ahead a bit, but that's the way I've done it for decades now.

+1! Finally a kindred spirit in the forum!
 
Re: Improv'd melodies

british - you really need to get some backing tracks and do some 'rut busting' ... if you are in a rut, the first thing you must do is to stop wearing deeper grooves in the rut by repeating the same habits .... so get a simple backing track .. one chord vamp ... mid tempo ... say it is a G major vamp ... so first play the note G ... only the note G ... vary the rhythm of your playing ... but only one note, G ... change the octave ... change the dynamics ... change the attack or the decay .... legato, staccato, whatever you got ... then play an A note over it ... same deal varying it up ..... now ... play only the notes G and A over it ... get the sound of that interval in your head ... now play the B ... then play G and B only .... then play G, A, and B only .... keep doing this interestingly all the way through the scale notes .... first add the scael degree by itself ... then the interval with the root ... then all the scale degrees ... mix em up ... remember to add rhythmic and dynamic interest ...

after you get thru the whole scale, sing a simple melodic phrase to yourself over the backing track ... only a few notes .. a phrase, not a long winded sentence ... then play the line you just sang ... extend this ...

if you must goof around with the minor pentatonic 'box' ... at least move it around to create interest ... play the A minor pentatonic box over a C major chord to create the C major pentatonic vibe .... look for other ways to move the box around to get fresh ideas ...



good luck
t4d
 
Re: Improv'd melodies

I've been stuck in the same boat you're in for quite awhile, and recently found how chord tones can greatly improve a solo or melody you're playing. My soloing has improved greatly, according to my keyboard player who has one of the best melodic senses around (He's a jazz keyboardist who can improvise entire songs and chord progressions right on the spot). With him making up all these crazy chord progressions its impossible for me to solo in straight pentatonic box forms anymore. I have to know all the chords and build my solos and melodies from the tones within them.
 
Re: Improv'd melodies

Step 1. - Learn to play every chord as an arpeggio vertically and horizontally on the neck.

Step 2. - Learn to play the arpeggios in different inversions (not only just 1 3 5 7 and so on all of the time).

Step 3. - Add the extensions beyond the first octave of your arpeggios (9ths, 11ths and 13ths). Those are chord tones as well!

Step 4. - Add and learn when to apply raised and lowered 9ths, 11ths and 13ths to your arpeggios in all inversions.

Learn to play and use everything above in every imaginable inversion. just because a note is a 9th, 11th, or 13th does not mean you can only use it in the upper register of the arpeggio. They can be used anywhere at any octave on the neck. And don't neglect the flat and raised 9ths, 11ths and 13ths.

I know when we speak arpeggios the first thing that comes to mind is shred. We're not talking shred here although shred does make liberal use of arpeggios. Remember, horn players (sax in particular) have been doing this sort of stuff for decades. Its tried and true. It also makes for more cohesive melodies than trying to play some ****ty modes.

Learn the appoggiatura as a voice leading device for smooth resolutions from one chord to the next. I have a post out there somewhere in which I discuss the appogiatura at length.

By the time you finish you'll be a chromatic genius with a well tuned ear. Here are some chromatic geniuses for you to listen to:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1849HfBsTP8&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnhMVrOOGZU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InFGNVUMWHQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lefTs0nqpnM&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNR7Tjh4Dlc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqeDFxS78dM&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBaHYDLQYMI
 
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Re: Improv'd melodies

Step 1. - Learn to play every chord as an arpeggio vertically and horizontally on the neck.

Step 2. - Learn to play the arpeggios in different inversions (not only just 1 3 5 7 and so on all of the time).

Step 3. - Add the extensions beyond the first octave of your arpeggios (9ths, 11ths and 13ths). Those are chord tones as well!

Step 4. - Add and learn when to apply raised and lowered 9ths, 11ths and 13ths to your arpeggios in all inversions.

Can we put this in the vault? This is fantastic advice . . .
 
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