Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

The neck pickup splits to the slug coil i think, because green is grounded, white/red are grounded and black is hot. We have 3 grounded wires (green, white and red). If green and red are grounded simultaneosly, then, the screw coil can´t work.
And if white is grounded and black is hot, we have the slug working, i think....
But i am not sure as i´m a little inexperienced. :31:

For the Bridge pickup, i think it splits to the screw coil . Green is grounded, and then white/red connect to Hot and black is hot too.
So we have 3 hots (black, white and red). If white and Black are hot simultaneosly, then, the slug coil can´t work. But, having green grounded and red to hot... the screw coil works.

Again, i´m not sure if this is the correct order...

Swapping both leads would maintain the Phase correct, and have an opposite thinking about the coil splits for each one.

Was this your suggestion? No hum-cancelling issues will appear?

Cheers

If you swap the black and green wires on both pickup, that should switch the coils that the pickps will split to.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Thats what I am saying.

Use the red/whites for the coil split, use the blacks as ground and the greens for hot.

Both coils of a humbucker are wound in the same direction and one end of the wind is the start lead, the other is the finish lead. The reverse wind condition for hum cancelling is created by connecting the finish leads.

Black is the start of the slug coil and green is the start of the screw coil. Electrically it doesn't matter if you use either green or black as hot as long as you are consistent in the same guitar.

So with the neck pickup you will be connecting red/white with black leaving the screw bobbin on and the bridge will connect red/white to green leaving the stud coil on.

Doing this will not effect anything else in the circuit and you'll be good to go.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Robert,
Thanks so much for you kind help.
I´ll be getting the Alnicos next week. However the special pots may take a bit longer.
I want to solder everything with extra care and no rush, as the wiring is to stay there for a long time and i want it clean! Since it doesnt alter the appearance, it´s cool. No one knows what´s inside.
I´ll let you know how it went

Again, many thanks !

Franco

Thats what I am saying.

Use the red/whites for the coil split, use the blacks as ground and the greens for hot.

Both coils of a humbucker are wound in the same direction and one end of the wind is the start lead, the other is the finish lead. The reverse wind condition for hum cancelling is created by connecting the finish leads.

Black is the start of the slug coil and green is the start of the screw coil. Electrically it doesn't matter if you use either green or black as hot as long as you are consistent in the same guitar.

So with the neck pickup you will be connecting red/white with black leaving the screw bobbin on and the bridge will connect red/white to green leaving the stud coil on.

Doing this will not effect anything else in the circuit and you'll be good to go.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hi,
First pickup ( APH1-n) has arrived. Just tried it and it´s great. I only have 4 strings in the guitar :boggled: , but it was enough to keep a good first impression.
The coil split sounds nice. Doesn´t have quite the slap of a "true single" (that it is... ), but sounds good. Will certainly give more versatily !

And surprise... wired it in parallel and in phase with itself, and the sound is very close to normal series in phase wiring. I think everyone should give it a try. A little more treble end (silky treble). but the same warm sound and great lows. I am going to wire it in series, of course, to be a true bucker, but believe me, it´s worth to try it just to check. After all, the 4 conductors have a use... :nervous:

Bridge APH1-b is arriving very soon. And the pots will be ordered today.

I´ll keep the topic updated for future reference. There´s always someone using the search engine :friday:

Cheers

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hi,
I have finished the wiring. Everything looks really clean, which is good, because there are lot´s of wires.

Honestly, reversing, black and green, is good for the split, because the APH-1 split in the bridge side coils, is too thin. The neck side coils are little better. Trust me.

BUT ... I have found 2 problems :

1- The Phase switch is ON , when the push/pull is down, and OFF when it´s up. Shouldn´t it be the opposite? What can i do to reverse the function ? Believe me, i have checked it 1000 times...
If you have a suggestion...


2- The series / parallel switch completly KILLS the sound when i use pull it, no matter what position the pickup switch is : rhythm/center/treble.
I also have doubled check it, and i found nothing wrong.
My pickup selector has only 3 pins and 1 ground pin. Should it work ? Some have 2 center pins that we solder togheter, like in the diagram.
Basically, i ran a wire from the centre pin pickup switch, to the output jack, and then... back from the jack to the E and F pins of the push/pull (the centre and lower right ones) , making it all one single point.

I have found this from you, Robert:

"The biggest hang up is usually in the wiring for (or around in a bogus schematic) the three way switch. Gibson LPs use Switchcraft switches with the outputs to both sides tied together, and that union is where the wire is connected that would normally run to the output jack. Those terminals need to be seperated to allow for proper wiring of the series switch (rhythm tone).
"

Again, isn´t the E + F pins of the series/parallel Pot, along with the 2 output pins of the pickup switch, and the hot pin of the jack... 1 single point ? they are all connected in the diagram you have postes in this post !

Hope hearing from you soon!!

Regards

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

My guess is that you have the wires reversed on the phase switch terminals.

Part of the problem is also your selector switch. You need a switchcraft with the 4 terminals + ground lug to pull it off properly. The schematic you are using lifts the ground at the series switch and replaces the ground wire with another and then feeds the signal independantly through both sides of the selector switch. If you have the "output" side of the selector switch tied together it shorts the guitar out.

That was one of the mistakes I made during my first attempt at wiring that schematic.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hi,
About the phase switch, should i just swap B and E pin wires ? I mean, the black and green wires coming from the bridge pickup , feeding the switch in the center ?
Honestly, i think they are as in the schematic, because i´ve even used the correct colours to wire it, but whatever does the trick, i´ll do it.

For the series switch, you are absolutely right. it´s not just "one point" like i´ve told. In one position, the center pins touch the upper pins, and in the other, the center pins touch the lower pins. Therefore, the switch must have 4 + 1 lugs. I think that´ll solve my issue.

And, everything else seems to be working just fine. ;-)

Cheers

Franco

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Swapping the middle post wires of the phase switch should correct your phase issues. During my first wiring attempt with this circuit it was easy to transpose the wiring because the schematic is stem up orientated and I wire the pots stem down. It is an easy mistake to make.

The Switchcraft switch in Les Pauls has the two "output" terminals soldered together and it is that way to combine the signals from both pickups and send them to the jack. Unsolder those and seperate the terminals.

You should be good to go from there.

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hi,
Unfortunatelly, my switch has 3 holes and 1 hole for ground, which means it´s always "parallel-moded". So, it means that there´s nothing i can do , unless i buy a new one for this matter.

I am going to check the phase thing later today when i get back home, and change it.

The schematic layout is good and clear. Only missing all the ground points. I have grounded all pots and the 3-way switch , as well as the string-wire.
I´ll give you feedback when i have it working

Thanks a lot Robert.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

What is the brand and model of the guitar you are modding?

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Hi,
My guitar is an 1995 Epiphone Les Paul Standard in vintage sunburst (brown/yellow sunburst), made in Korea. Great axe, but frets are a bit worn. Have it with me since 2001.
I am replacing the SD ´59s and have sold the stock pickups after buying the guitar.
The 59´s didnt sound bad. They´re good actually, but, the AP have 4 wires. I hope this versatily brings something usefull, which i think it does, even if in a live situation (i don´t play live for years... :ban i would only use 3 or 4 sounds maximum.

I also have an American Fender Strat with a custom wiring (4-pole ; 5-way) designed by me with stock single coils and a bridge SSL-3 , with tap switch which a great coil.
Here´s my Strat wiring :
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/thefive/index.php


I play via an Ashdown Peacemaker 60w and have a few effects, despite playing the guitar straight to the amp most of the times.

And you?

Cheers

What is the brand and model of the guitar you are modding?

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

I was curious because I was looking for the proper 3 way switch for your guitar to make the JP wiring work for you. I am fairly sure the Epi uses the short body 3 way but I am not positive.

I am primarily a Les Paul player but I've been known to play and own just about anything depending on my mood and finances at the time. Two years ago I had something like 14 guitars laying around including 3 Les Pauls, a Strat, an Ibanez RG550, a Tele, a PRS CU24, a one off Conklin melt top and a few others.

My favorite over the last several years is a 1998 Les Paul std honeyburst with the JP wiring. There is a pic of it on my profile.

My current amp of choice is a 1984 Marshall 2203 that I have been running through a Mesa 112 3/4 cab. I have the matching marshall 412 cab here but the single 12 Mesa cab helps keep the levels down a little.

Now lets get that guitar happening for you!

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

whow....that´s a hell of a gear :headbang:
Unfortunatelly , i dont have either space, money and time to have more than 2 guitars. I don´t play in a band since 2003 ,and have started working in the meanwhile after college, and have very few time to play my guitars. Sometimes I pick it up, explode for about 15 minutes, and feel great after that. I always loved playing guitar and i wish i had more time to play more.


I am pretty much sure that after getting the right switch (those naked/skeleton ones) , the guitar will be working just fine !
Yesterday i confirmed, and the green and black and the respective "outs" in the phase switch, are OK. Whatever does the trick, i´ll do it.
I found no explanation to have it working in the opposite way. I am affraid to swap the green and black wires, to solve this issue, because , as we´ve discussed before, i wanted to use the "neck side" coils... and this may have effect on that. Again, i will re-re-re-check. :notworthy

Did you check my wiring for the Stratocaster? If one day you have a superswitch and time to, try it, it´s very handy and makes it so versatile and specially Simple to play at the same time.

Cheers

Franco

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

I can confirm that the schematic will work correctly if wired correctly.

The only way to have your humbuckers wired out of phase is to have the black and green wires crossed somewhere. If both blacks are hot the pickups will be properly phased. If both greens are hot the pickup will be properly phased.

Good luck, the answer is in the wiring somewhere........

 

[Franco]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

That´s exactly the same thinking i am having with the little difference that the choosen coils will be either the bridge-sided if Black wires are hot, or neck-sided if green wires are hot.

I think it has to do with the mess i did in the parallel/series pot/switch. As you know i misunderstood it and have wired it wrong , along with the fact that the switch is not the right one.

When i have the switch, all doubts will be gone for sure.

Yesterday, i was trying it as it is now. Very interesting sounds. I like the sound of neck humbucker + bridge coil, parallel out-of-phase. Very funky
That´s the beauty of it. If we need, there´s more in the axe than meets the eye. :deal:


Do you have clips from you that i can hear ?

cheers

I can confirm that the schematic will work correctly if wired correctly.

The only way to have your humbuckers wired out of phase is to have the black and green wires crossed somewhere. If both blacks are hot the pickups will be properly phased. If both greens are hot the pickup will be properly phased.

Good luck, the answer is in the wiring somewhere........

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

Follow the soundclick link below to listen to some of my stuff. The solos in Danger Zone are the bridge and neck out of phase.

 

[CeM]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

I want the same JP wiring and outer neck inner bridge splitting too...

I asked my old guitar teacher if he could do it...he said okey but he needs a wiring diagram...Can somebody find me a diagram which shows the JB wiring with the outer neck inner bridge thing...I dont know anything about electronics...

If there is no diagram which shows that, can you explain what to do really simply???

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ?

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_3w_2pp

This diagram is close to what you want but it splits to both the inner coils. If you want to split the neck pickup to the outer coil you need to change the jumper wire that connects the neck push pull pot terminals to ground. Instead of connecting those terminals to ground, connect them to the neck pickups black wire. A simple jumper wire from the terminals to the #3 terminal on the neck pickups volume pot will do the trick.

 

[CeM]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ? - HEY ARTIE

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ? - HEY ARTIE

Here is the diagram you want.

I think the diagram you posted here is even closer to what i want since it has the other features of JP wiring...
This one has inner neck outer bridge as you said...
Can you tell it again please???

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ? - HEY ARTIE

Re: Inner coil, outer coil - Hum-cancelling ? - HEY ARTIE

Can you tell it again please???

Define "it" and I'll do my best to answer your question.