Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

[elwoodcat]

Hello everyone,

I just bought a new 2006 Standard Strat (Mexican with 3 stock single coil pickups).

I installed a brand new "Hot Rails for Strat" (SHR-1B) in the bridge position according to the schematic found on http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/lil_hb_2sings_1vol_2tone_5.html

Red and White soldered together, insulated and taped off.
Black to 5 way switch
Green and bare soldered too the 250K volume pot.

After installing the pickup, here is what I noticed...

1. Position 2 (bridge and middle) is no longer hum canceling (I think I should expect this, but I am not sure).

2. When playing clean - with only the Hot Rail selected - the Hot Rail sounds as if it were mildly distorted.

Thanks for your time...I know this issue has been beaten to death. But I haven't been able to find a clear answer.

 

[elwoodcat]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

Regarding the first issue...

I thought it made sense that position 2 would no longer be hum canceling. However, to be sure, I verified this with an email to SD support.

They sent me a quick response stating the following:

>Wire the Hot Rail like this instead:
>Put GREEN & BLACK together, and connect them where the red & white currently are.
>Put the RED wire to the 5-way switch.
>Put the WHITE & BARE wires to ground on the bottom of the volume pot.

I really only expected them to only verify that position 2 will no longer be hum canceling after installing hot rails in the bridge. I was surprised to have them send me a new wiring schematic.

Before I rip open the guitar and unsolder and resolder everything, can anyone take a shot at explaining the theory behind this wiring scheme? In other words, what should I expect after re-wiring the guitar as they describe?

Thanks!
Scott

 

[Artie]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

This will be sort of a "rough" explanation, but basically, you have two different signals that hit the coils: the string vibration, which you want, and the electrical noise thats in the air, that you don't want. If you just wanted to reverse the phase of the whole pickup, so that it would be in-phase with another pickup, you'ld reverse the green and black wires.

In this case, however, we want to reverse the phase of the noise thats picked up out of the air. So we have to do a "double-reverse". You connect the pickup wires inside-out, so to speak, by using the "finish" wires of the coils, rather than the "start" wires. The coils are now reversed internally, but back in-phase with your other pups.

Does that make sense?

Artie

 

[MikeS]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

Switching the black and green only applies if the pickups are electronically out of phase with each other. I’m honestly not sure where Fender is with their winding and polarity these days. Consensus seems to think that they are magnetically and electronically in phase with Duncans, meaning that you shouldn’t have to swap the black and green wires.

The reason the hot rails would not be hum-canceling with middle single coil in the notch position is because (unsplit) the HR coils cancel each other out, leaving no coil to cancel the hum from the middle pickup. To solve that use this diagram instead: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/hum_2sing_vol_2tone_-w-spl.html
That diagram splits the hot rails so that only one coil is operating in position 2, effectively canceling the hum of the middle single coil. If that position still hums, swap the black and green wires.

For question two: the Hot rails is a high output pickup, which pushes the electronics of the amplifier harder than a low or moderate output pickup. Higher output pickups are traditionally “dirtier” on the clean channels for this reason.

Give me a couple minutes and I’ll try to confirm the polarity and winding direction of Fender pickups. I’m also working under the assumption that Standards are using a RWRP middle pickup. Is position 4 and the old position 2 hum-canceling?

 

[MikeS]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

OK, according to Stewart-MacDonald, Fender single coils match Duncan single coils in polarity, start and finish wire color, and both are wound counter-clockwise. That means that assuming Fender installed a RWRP middle pickup that the diagram in my previous post will be hum cancelling in position 2.

 

[elwoodcat]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

Thank you for the quick responses! I really appreciate the replies!

Regarding the assumption that the middle coil is RWRP:

Yes, I believe the middle pickup is RWRP...Before I replaced the stock bridge pickup with the hot rail, positions 2 and 4 were hum free.

Regarding issue 2: Thanks for the information! It's actually a pretty good sound! I just wanted to make sure the pickup wasn't doing something it shouldn't. If I want, I suppose I can minimize the distortion by reducing the volume on the guitar.

 

[elwoodcat]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

I noticed that the title of the link that you posted is "1 Humbucker, 2 single coils-1 volume-2 tones 1 selector switch and coil split in the #4"

Split in the #4 ??

Are you sure this is the right schematic? I want the hot rail (that I installed in position 1 - bridge), to be split when the guitar is in position 2 (bridge/middle) right?

Thanks again!!

P.S. I still don't understand the purpose of the instructions that SD support sent me (see post #2)? I'm guessing that I should just forget about those instructions, and focus on splitting the rail when I am in position 2.

 

[Thor]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

Hey dude!!

I wish you the very best of luck with your project. Wish I could help! I'm too inexperienced.

I have a favour to ask. If you install these pickups, lemme know how you like them! I have a strat that is annoying me a little and I think the rails might be the way to go.

I'd love to hear from someone that recently made the switch. I learn a lot from reading other people's thoughts.

If you DON'T mind....you can email me direct.

my email is imitchellgill@hotmail.com

If you could tell me, I would be grateful.

Best of luck!!

Thor:banana:

 

[Artie]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

I noticed that the title of the link that you posted is "1 Humbucker, 2 single coils-1 volume-2 tones 1 selector switch and coil split in the #4"

Split in the #4 ??

Are you sure this is the right schematic? I want the hot rail (that I installed in position 1 - bridge), to be split when the guitar is in position 2 (bridge/middle) right?

Thanks again!!

P.S. I still don't understand the purpose of the instructions that SD support sent me (see post #2)? I'm guessing that I should just forget about those instructions, and focus on splitting the rail when I am in position 2.

Unfortunately, there's no standardization in 5-way numbering. Fender calls position #1 the bridge. Duncan calls position #1 the neck. So in this diagram, position #4 just means the middle/bridge position.

 

[elwoodcat]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

Thanks Artietoo. I was wondering if that was the case. I'll continue to specify the exact pickups instead of using the numbering scheme when posting on the boards.

Thanks for the additional comments!

So unless I hear otherwise in the next day or so, I plan on following this plan, as described by MikeS:

1. Ignore the instructions from Seymour Duncan support*, and instead, wire the guitar exactly as described here:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/hum_2sing_vol_2tone_-w-spl.html

2. If the bridge/middle position still hums, then swap the black and green wires.

* I really would like to try what SD support suggested in post #2...I gotta believe that their instructions make good sense. I wish I understood it. But I'm hoping that the split schematic is the best option, and I don't want to keep trying different things. I'd like to just get it going and move on!

Thor, I'll be sure to post what I think of the setup here. I'll try and remember to zip you an email too.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

So unless I hear otherwise in the next day or so, I plan on following this plan, as described by MikeS:

1. Ignore the instructions from Seymour Duncan support*, and instead, wire the guitar exactly as described here:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/hum_2sing_vol_2tone_-w-spl.html

2. If the bridge/middle position still hums, then swap the black and green wires.

Provided that the Fender pups are wound the same direction and use the same color start/finish wires as Duncans, step two shouldn't be necessary.

* I really would like to try what SD support suggested in post #2...I gotta believe that their instructions make good sense. I wish I understood it. But I'm hoping that the split schematic is the best option, and I don't want to keep trying different things. I'd like to just get it going and move on!

Those instructions would be required only if Fender pickups were wound counter-clockwise. I made an error in my second post stating that Fender and Duncan were wound CCW... they are in fact wound CW (new that, just had a brain fart when typing).

Can you verify that the neck/middle position is hum-canceling? I've heard that some strats do not have RWRP pickups in the middle position, making hum-canceling an impossibility.

Good luck. After having to track down an electrical issue on a strat this last weekend I can understand why you only want to do it once. Removing the pickguard with strings on the guitar is a major PITA. I must have done it 4 times trying to track down a bad solder connection.

 

[elwoodcat]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

Yep, the guitar is definitely hum canceling in the neck/middle position.

BTW...I traced the distorted sound coming from the hot rail to my pick guard. Becuase I knew I would be going back in, I only screwed the pick guard on using 4 of the 11 screws. The distorted sound I was getting was the low E and A strings causing the entire pickup to vibrate. When I securely hold the pick guard in place, the distortion goes away. Sounds so obvious. Ugh. Feel stupid for wasting everyones time with that issue.

One more question (hopefully)

My current setup:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support...l_2tone_5.html

Split schematic:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/hum_2sing_vol_2tone_-w-spl.html

When I compare my current setup with the split schematic I see major differences in how the pots are wired to the switch.

However, when I look closely, it looks to me that even though the wiring coming from the volume and tone pots looks different in the 2 schematics, I really only need to worry about where the wires are attached to the switch. Is that correct? Or do I really need to add another .022 capacitor, and change all the wires coming off the pots. I'd rather do as little soldering as possible. But it's more important that I do something that is proven, I really don't want to open the guitar again.

Thanks so much.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Installing Hot Rails in new Standard Strat

However, when I look closely, it looks to me that even though the wiring coming from the volume and tone pots looks different in the 2 schematics, I really only need to worry about where the wires are attached to the switch. Is that correct? Or do I really need to add another .022 capacitor, and change all the wires coming off the pots. I'd rather do as little soldering as possible. But it's more important that I do something that is proven, I really don't want to open the guitar again.

Wire the pots to the switch as shown in the split diagram if you want to split the rails like this:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/bigm_ike/image-5111642-0001.jpg

Personally, I prefer either the diagram showing two capacitors or using a single master tone (like this: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/hum_2sing_vol_tone-w-split.html)

However, they all work and do the same thing (more or less.. the tone controls act a little differently depending on how they are wired). Good luck.