Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

[uOpt]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

I just put my meter on a 3" patch cable and a 25' cable from the same manufacturer that I happened to have laying near my desk (Lifelines brand which use ProCo cable. I use Mogami in my studio. I'll have to measure next time I'm in.).

The 3" measured .3 ohm while the 25' measured 1 ohm. So basically using the 25' it would be like having my volume pot measure 500.001 Kohm.

The capacitance was 1.5nF for the 25'. (note that is in nanofarads, not microfarads) So that's like having a 0.022uf tone cap that measures 0.0235uf. I've got Sprague Orange drops that measure from 0.0234uf to 0.02495uf and still sound great.

I think the effect could be noticeable to some players, but not that significant in the overall scheme, IMHO. I think there are much bigger tone dragons to slay first.

You can only compare to your tone pot capacitor when the tone pot is full closed (zero resistance, just the capacitor). I doubt that you rate that as little.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

You can only compare to your tone pot capacitor when the tone pot is full closed (zero resistance, just the capacitor). I doubt that you rate that as little.

I think my point didn't come across. The amount the cable is contributing to tone loss is less than just the tolerance window of any good tone cap. A cheap ProCo cable is like adding a 0.0015uf cap to the circuit. Noticeable, sure, but not huge.

 

[80's_Metal]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

But What if cheap cables sound awesome????















I don't use them anymore, but what if?

 

[jmh151]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Ever do a test of that George L's cable compared to any others? I made up a 10-footer and compared it to several other 10s I had laying around and the GL cut a significant amount of bass. If you're not using the Mogami's across the board, you're losing bass and making up for it at the amp. Not saying that's a bad thing - but it's a thing to consider when you go out and only 'upgrade' a fraction of the chain.

Personally I quit worrying about that stuff. I have a mix of cables in my rig - Lava Soar, GLs, Canare, Solid Cables, DiMarzio. That is a wormhole I'd rather avoid going down.

I actually was thinking of that... I've invested so much in the George L plugs, not to mention the time wiring it up. I'm considering upgrading the cable to Evidence Audio Monorail, which is compatible with the George L cables.

I've plugged my guitar with the Mogami right into my amp, and compared to to being fed through my pedalboard with George L cables and buffers, with a Pedalsnake, and noticed little difference in tone

The Pedalsnake uses high capacitance cable, but they maintain if you use a buffered pedal at the beginning and end of each chain, you'll get quieter results than using low capacitance cable. I have a Mogami going into my Boss TU-2, and the buffer off that eliminates any high or low end loss.. At the end of a chain it hits an ISP G String decimator, which also has a buffer, before hitting the input of the amp through the Pedalsnake. The send from the amp then goes through the Pedalsnake to a Corona Chorus, set as a buffer, before going through a true bypass delay and reverb, back to the G string with the buffer, back through the Pedalsnake to the return of the amp.

 

[erksin]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Yikes. Sounds complicated.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Can any of you seriously hear a difference between cables???

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Can any of you seriously hear a difference between cables???

Yes, can you not? Like I posted before, I think your full signal chain plays into it, including the amp. When I was really noticing it was with my original SS Peavey. Who knows what the input impedance is for that compared to a good amp. Also had a few semi-bypassed pedals and a long first lead.

Heck, go find a 300' cable like Buddy Guy uses when he walks up into the crowd. If you don't hear a difference with that...

 

[erksin]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Can any of you seriously hear a difference between cables???

I can - sometimes it's subtle, lots of times it's not.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Can any of you seriously hear a difference between cables???

Sometimes, yes -- like when I put something really different in, like the 10ft. cables I made from MIT interconnects. They're really bass-heavy but punchy, and the mids are full and natural.

 

[Grindspine]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

I started out using Horizon cables. Several shorted out on me and I started to look for better cables. After a few different brands, I got some Monster Performer 500 Rock cables. I found those far too crisp, though they certainly had better shielding than the Horizon cables. I was unimpressed with the Mogami cables I have tried; they were not poor quality, but seemed to dull the sound a bit. I took a chance going back to Monster to try the Performer 500 Jazz cables. The thicker core along with thicker shielding seems to balance the enhanced brightness with just enough capacitance for my ears. I have been happy using the P500 Jazz cables for years now.

A friend of mine and I have done cable shootouts with both of our amps and several guitars. Granted, these were not double-blind tests, but we determined that we could hear a difference in the various cables we tried. Fortunately, he likes the brighter sound of the Monster Rock cables I still had, which I was able to trade him for a good bottle of blended scotch!

 

[uOpt]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

I think my point didn't come across. The amount the cable is contributing to tone loss is less than just the tolerance window of any good tone cap. A cheap ProCo cable is like adding a 0.0015uf cap to the circuit. Noticeable, sure, but not huge.

Your point came across, but you are still wrong.

Your tone control capacitor is in a circuit with that capacitor in series with a (very large) resistor. The cable capacitance is always in parallel with the pickup

To compare your tone control capacitor with cable capacitance you would have to turn the tone control to zero, then you have the capacitor in parallel to the pickup. As you will see it is very, very dark.

If your tone control is not at zero you do not have the capacitor in parallel to the pickup and you cannot compare the values.

 

[OsvyRock]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

I use Dimarzio. Had to use other brand cable because the 2nd guitarist cable in one of ex-bands failed at a show. IT WAS HELL!
I'm using my first two Dimarzio instrument cables, I purchased back in 2006. Still sounding strong!

 

[jpistolas]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Still using the same 20' Spectraflex cable for about 15 yrs. Never failed and to my ears sounds good. George L's for patch cables. Got a couple cheap GC cables that do seem to sound a tad duller. Could be my imagination. I'm mostly speaking of reliability. Spectraflex & George L's have never failed once & I don't solder the George L's. The George L connectors work fine. Honestly, I feel aside of reliability & quality the main difference cable can make in your sound is length & quality of wire. See the Buddy Guy comment. 30' is going to sound slightly different than a 10'.

Threads like these reminds me of a story I heard when I first started playing: Hendrix' guitar tech would give him a fuzz to try and he wouldn't like it. After rotating a few different ones he would sneak back in one of the rejected pedals and it would magically be the perfect pedal.

Story may have been total BS but I've also ran sound and had guitarists & bassists ask for more bass, treble or to go louder. We would "pretend" to turn them up or change the mix and they were suddenly happy with the sound when before they weren't even though no changes were actually made.

My point to all this rambling being that differences in cable tones are so subtle that it's mostly in our heads. Musicians tend to have a hard "right" and hard "wrong" conclusion on things and aren't happy until those criteria are thought to be met.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Yikes. Sounds complicated.

It is and it isn't- if it's complicated it's because the owner/ designer/ engineer of Pedalsnake is a former NASA scientist or engineer- so I just followed his recommendations on what to do for cables and my pedalboard, and I have to say- its dead quiet.

I tried wrapping 4 George L cables together, and there was too much noise/ cross talk being too close together- something that's eliminated on the Pedalsnake

 

[mantis]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

It is and it isn't- if it's complicated it's because the owner/ designer/ engineer of Pedalsnake is a former NASA scientist or engineer- so I just followed his recommendations on what to do for cables and my pedalboard, and I have to say- its dead quiet.

I tried wrapping 4 George L cables together, and there was too much noise/ cross talk being too close together- something that's eliminated on the Pedalsnake

You should be able to run cables Parallel to each other and not get interference. IF your getting interference , then replace those cables with ones that do not. i have 4 Whirlwinds in a bundle with Velcro and no crosstalk or interference at all , if there is some , I do't hear it.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

You should be able to run cables Parallel to each other and not get interference. IF your getting interference , then replace those cables with ones that do not. i have 4 Whirlwinds in a bundle with Velcro and no crosstalk or interference at all , if there is some , I do't hear it.

I did replace them- with a pedalsnake. On the prior attempt, it's not that I used Velcro- I tried to make my own pedalsnake, thinking it was better cable. I ran 4 lengths of George L cable very tightly through shrink wrap- and that caused crosstalk, excessive noise.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Threads like these reminds me of a story I heard when I first started playing: Hendrix' guitar tech would give him a fuzz to try and he wouldn't like it. After rotating a few different ones he would sneak back in one of the rejected pedals and it would magically be the perfect pedal.

Story may have been total BS but I've also ran sound and had guitarists & bassists ask for more bass, treble or to go louder. We would "pretend" to turn them up or change the mix and they were suddenly happy with the sound when before they weren't even though no changes were actually made.

My point to all this rambling being that differences in cable tones are so subtle that it's mostly in our heads. Musicians tend to have a hard "right" and hard "wrong" conclusion on things and aren't happy until those criteria are thought to be met.

I don't disagree... I almost think the point of a thread like this is to say "hey, we care enough about our guitar tone to change pickups, capacitors and even pots... Listen to some different cables. Maybe you'll like the brighter ones, maybe the darker ones, and maybe the difference with your rig isn't enough for you to care". Just another piece of the puzzle.

Another story like this is Eric Johnson and his batteries. A bunch of people ragged him for years on that! Enough that he says he wishes he never mentioned it! But people play it up like he said he could tell a Duracell from an Energizer. He was talking about Carbon batteries vs. alkaline batteries in vintage fuzz faces. With a circuit like that, there's a difference if you drop the voltage, especially if the battery is dying.

All fun stuff to talk about. (I should probably be playing though... )

 

[CTN]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

correct answer is "who gives a f**k??"

stop talking about playing and just play already.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

Sometimes, yes -- like when I put something really different in, like the 10ft. cables I made from MIT interconnects. They're really bass-heavy but punchy, and the mids are full and natural.

Cables will mainly have an affect on the highs transmitted, not the bass or mids. If those cables, at only 10', sound..."really bass-heavy but punchy, and the mids are full", then you're using a cable that has SIGNIFICANTLY altered your tone by removing a massive amount of treble!

A few years ago I did a sound comparison test with over a dozen (closer to 20) different cables. The difference in cables only 10' long was difficult to hear (I'm not talking about using fancy electronics to measure capacitence, wavelength/frequency, amplitude, etc), just human ears. As the cable length increased, the differences in cables was more noticeable (obviously), and at 20-30' was unmistakenably evident. Several 25' vintage cloth covered cables (don't recall the brands) were very good at transmitting the full spectrum of sound. But a 25' Fender Gold and 30' Mogami cable (in the $60-100 range) were the best. I couldn't hear any difference between the 30' Mogami and a good quality 3' patch cable, while some cheap 8-10' cables sounded muffled by comparison.

So, to answer your question..."Can any of you seriously hear a difference between cables", the answer is a resounding..."absolutely"!!!

 

[Grindspine]

Re: Instrument cables , anyone notice any differences in tone?

As a follow-up to my prior post and noting what GuitarDoc said about cable length, the difference in cables is quite noticable in my rack rig considering 24' + of cables between my guitar and my power amp if the main cable and patch cables are summed, then another 10' of speaker cable after each stereo side of the 2:Ninety.