Intonation issues

[Nightburst]

I don't get it, I intonated my Ibanez RG (MIK with ilt bridge)for D tuning but it sounds off in open chords, especially the G string sounds terribly nasal.
It did it the 'open string note = 12th fretted note' way. Maybe it's not the proper way to intonate this guitar? There are so many different opinions about the right way of intonating a guitar I figuered it doesn't matter that much. Would the blocked floyd have anything to do with it? I made shure the bridge is flush with the body like it should.

 

[Indie P Bass]

Re: Intonation issues

I had that issue once... with my ibanez... and as it turns out, my bridge was pulling out of the body, so, now I'm trying to find out how to block my trem down (it's uber ****ty)

In anycase, you're been intonating it correctly, but, maybe you need to use thicker strings to get a fuller tone?

 

[\m/(00)\m/]

Re: Intonation issues

you did it right

thats how i intonated my charvel and it's all fine now.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Intonation issues

I had that issue once... with my ibanez... and as it turns out, my bridge was pulling out of the body, so, now I'm trying to find out how to block my trem down (it's uber ****ty)

In anycase, you're been intonating it correctly, but, maybe you need to use thicker strings to get a fuller tone?

I'll have to check if my bridge isn't pulling but as I said its blocked so it's not really moving.
It is slightly tilted backbards when all the strings are slacked, could it be possible that I have to make a better fitting block?
I use .11 strings so that's can't be the problem. But shouldn't it intonate properly with any gauge strings anyway?

 

[theodie]

Re: Intonation issues

I had a similar problem with a les paul. My problem was due to the nut. The string was contacting the the front of the nut slot (towards the top of the headstock). I had to file the nut slot at an angle. Basicly following the angle of the angled headstock. I think it is a 13 or a 14 degree angle. After that was finished the string contacted the back of the slot and it sounded perfectly. Your problem is different because it is a floyd. Is you action high at the first couple of frets? Your nut might have to come down. That is all I can suggest without seeing the guitar myself. Good Luck with the problem, I hope its fixed soon.

 

[y2stevo]

Re: Intonation issues

Do you have the springs on the brigde tightened so that it hold the bridge firmly down on the block?

 

[DeadSkinSlayer3]

Re: Intonation issues

Intonate it to the 12th fret harmonic (when you fret the string, it changes the string length by enough to offset it), then make sure every fretted note from 7-15 is in perfect pitch, or within a cent or two.

 

[theodie]

Re: Intonation issues

The harmonic reads flat on a tuner. This would be correct if you would play the guitar in harmonics only. I choose to use fretted notes most of the time when I play.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Intonation issues

I had a similar problem with a les paul. My problem was due to the nut. The string was contacting the the front of the nut slot (towards the top of the headstock). I had to file the nut slot at an angle. Basicly following the angle of the angled headstock. I think it is a 13 or a 14 degree angle. After that was finished the string contacted the back of the slot and it sounded perfectly. Your problem is different because it is a floyd. Is you action high at the first couple of frets? Your nut might have to come down. That is all I can suggest without seeing the guitar myself. Good Luck with the problem, I hope its fixed soon.

Provided the nut is low enough, so that open chords don't bend sharp from high action, the next step is action and truss rod, so the guitar plays just how you like it. I like to adjust the truss rod so that the worst notes on the fretboard sound as good as possible.

Here's the secret to perfect intonation. First, make sure the guitar is tuned how you want it. Then, make sure the open notes and 12th fret notes are in perfect pitch with each other. The final step, which makes the guitar sound perfect, is to test every note from about the 10th fret up to the 20th fret.
On each string, fret the notes from the 10th to the 20th, making sure each note is dead center on a tuner. If your 15th fret is a bit flat, move the saddle toward the neck. Retune the guitar. If any of the notes are sharp, move the saddle toward the butt end of the guitar. Do this on every note above the 10th fret, and you'll see how imperfect it is. Keep tweaking, and you'll have a guitar that stays in perfect tune and sounds sweet on every chord on the neck.

 

[DeadSkinSlayer3]

Re: Intonation issues

The harmonic reads flat on a tuner. This would be correct if you would play the guitar in harmonics only. I choose to use fretted notes most of the time when I play.

That's why you test each individual fret

 

[aleclee]

Re: Intonation issues

Intonate it to the 12th fret harmonic (when you fret the string, it changes the string length by enough to offset it), then make sure every fretted note from 7-15 is in perfect pitch, or within a cent or two.

theodie is correct. Comparing the open string to the harmonic doesn't accurately account for the forces in effect when you fret the string. Also, it's not very realistic to believe that you get the harmonic node exactly (within 1-2 cents) over the fret.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Intonation issues

You guys rock! :headbang:
I'm going to try this one more time and if it doesn't work I'm taking it to a tech. Might as well get a new nut too.

I slacked the springs in the back a little as they are pulling the floyd a little, I noticed a little more stabillity in tuning when the springs are quite loose.
Also, I removed the finetuners as they only got in the way and made the guitar out of tune when I hit them while playing. This puts the saddles in a slightly different angle, would this matter much?

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Intonation issues

Nah, put the finetuners back on and set them to their middlepoint. Get the Floyd baseplate level to the body, action set, then intonate all your saddles so all the notes high up on the neck are dead center on your tuner. It's a pain with those allen bolts and having to nudge the saddle, but when it's perfect the guitar will sing.

 

[Creedis777]

Re: Intonation issues

Please correct if I am wrong but I attempted to intonate my guitar once and encountered simialer problems and mine was just ur basic epi special 2. I took it to our local tech and explained the situation. They asked me what kind of tuner I was using and I told them ur regular tuner you get for guitar tuning. They kinda laughed a little and said "That's your problem. You need a piano tuner to do a good intonation." So, yea I hope that helps. Probably not what you wanted to hear but I don't think those guys would lie to me. I fought with it for a good few hours and they did it in 3 minutes....

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Intonation issues

Would a Boss TU-2 be accurate enough?
Is it really nessicary to put the finetuners on? I don't ever use them and prefer to leave them off.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Intonation issues

Would a Boss TU-2 be accurate enough?
Is it really nessicary to put the finetuners on? I don't ever use them and prefer to leave them off.

IMHO, a TU-2 is not accurate enough. It's accurate to +-3 cents. If you're 3 cents off on the high E string, that would give you one beat every two seconds compared to a "true" E--one beat/second at the octave. You can get good results with a TU-2 but there are going to be times where things aren't gonna be quite right.

IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Intonation issues

IMHO, a TU-2 is not accurate enough. It's accurate to +-3 cents. If you're 3 cents off on the high E string, that would give you one beat every two seconds compared to a "true" E--one beat/second at the octave. You can get good results with a TU-2 but there are going to be times where things aren't gonna be quite right.

IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

Thanks,
Yeah I've heard the 3 cents off comment before. I'm taking my guitar to a tech after all to have it set up with a new nut.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Intonation issues

It's not a bad idea to have a tech set it up, but keep the fine tuners on it, or else you won't be able to lock down the nut and still adjust your tuning. If you don't lock down the nut, keeping your guitar in tune will be very difficult.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Intonation issues

It's not a bad idea to have a tech set it up, but keep the fine tuners on it, or else you won't be able to lock down the nut and still adjust your tuning. If you don't lock down the nut, keeping your guitar in tune will be very difficult.

Thanks GJ, but I've blocked the floyd so I don't really need the finetuners.
I'll have the tech cut a non-locking nut and give the guitar a full setup. It should play like butter then.

Btw. did you receive my pm with the picture yet?

 

[Jeff5]

Re: Intonation issues

Okay so, just so I get this strait since I'm still an intonation newbie and I've had the same problem. (open and 12th harmonic read same but still sounded off)

You guys are saying play the open then the 12th harmonic and make sure they match. Got this, I do it today.

Then play all notes from 10th on to the 20th, and for whatever note you're playing it should read dead center on the tuner. If not adjust the saddle. The only concern I have is I think when i tried this once, it made the open/12th harmonic read off again. Will this happen? I was going nuts!

Also can string height affect intonation? Or like GJ said cause the notes to bend out of tune on open chords? I have my set up fairly high, although not insanely high.